Re: London congestion tax hike would boost emissions !

Brian Whitehead wrote:

JNugent <J...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

TaL is so badly run and so hopelessly inefficient that *even with* all
those billions of pounds out of the pockets of Gateshead and Neath
residents and others who never see London from one year's end to the
next, and even with tens of millions out of the pockets of those who
need to use vehicles in London, they still can't keep fares down to what
reasonable people would call reasonable.

How do you know?

Because... er... the fares are so high?

Which of itself tells us nothing

Of course it doesn't. I'd told you the same thing in the previous post. I assumed that you were questioning the assertion that many TaL fares are unreasonably high.

Is the cost of running the underground and carrying
out upgrades out of line with other systems around the world? �Other
systems, that is, with comparable amounts of old infrastucture which
is badly in need of upgrades.

Are the fares as high on the NY subway as they are on the Tube (I've
never been there)? The Metro is certainly cheaper (for the traveller)
than the Tube is. And both of those systems face proper competition from
road traffic, whereas TaL have been able to award themselves a
near-monopoly, aided by the fact that they have been given full control
of the roads.

Does the NY Metro have as many ancient lines, which have been deprived
of maintenance and upgrades for decades?

All these questions, questions, questions...

I don't know what the fare structure on the Subway is, but if all comparison can in any case be sidestepped by pointing out the rather obvious fact that the London Underground and the New York Subway are not geographically or technologically identical, then I wonder why you raised the issue of comparisons in the first place (and see below).

Of course, the usual claim about cheaper, more efficient, transport
systems elsewhere is that they float on a sea of subsidy. This just
ignores the billions of pounds handed to TaL every year, much/most of it
gathered from the paypackets and pockets of people who never see London.

Got any figures? And comparables for other countries?

Have you? Or will there just be some reason why any other comparison isn't valid?

Also, remember that the cost of upgrading the underground has been
inflated by central government's insistence on it being funded through
a PPP - this was foisted on Livingstone very much against his will.

I am no expert on these things, but my understanding is that the PFI/PPP
system removes the need for large public capital expenditure. The whole
idea is that the expenditure is provided privately (and effectively
rented later). That militates against the tenor of what you were saying.-

My understanding is that the cost of servicing the debt is higher than
it would be had the govt borrowed the cash. Add in the metronet
collapse, and you end up with a system that is more expensive than it
needs to be.

So that's Crash Gordon's fault rather than Mad Ken's?

They're in the same party, aren't they?
.

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