Re: Trucks on the M6


Adrian wrote:
Fod (friendsofderek@xxxxxxxxx) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

1) You're driving too slowly.
Therefore i'll drive dangerously! woo hoo, way to go connor.
As leaps of logic go, that one deserves an Olympic gold medal.
connors justification for a truck driving to close to a car is that
the car is driving to slowly... drivng a car too slowly is often
subjective to the person behind but I'd say its never justification
for driving dangerously in response....
Did I say it was?
thats what i thought you were implying, if it wasn't then fair do's.


On the other hand, if we're talking about a motorway that IS clear
enough for the truck to be able to move faster, then why on earth
shouldn't you?
whats that got to do with the truck driving to close the car in front?

If it's safe for the truck to be doing 50+, then it's
most certainly safe for you in a car to be doing 50+.
if the motorways clear the truck should just overtake. certainly you
could have a bus at 70 tailgating it to a large truck at 60. the truck
legally can't go above 60 while the bus can.

I've never figured out why some people think that bimbling along at
40mph on a clear motorway is "safer". It's not. It's bloody dangerous.
If they're not safe at motorway speeds, then they really shouldn't be
driving full stop.
i agree


Do you regularly see people slamming all on on motorways for no
reason whatsoever?
What makes you think there won't be a reason? Accidents can happen
without warning and at close range which is why your 3 point is an
example of dangerous driving.
You might only look at the back end of the car in front of you, but
it's generally considered to be a good idea to look quite a bit
further than that - like the truck driver is doing, from his higher
vantage point. He can see the same as you can - probably more.
interesting jump there... me pointing out that an accident can happen
unexpectidly to you saying i have poor road visibility skills...
perhaps that gold should be yours :)

Crashes NEVER happen "unexpectedly". YOU might not be expecting it, but
that doesn't mean that somebody observing properly wouldn't have.
i said accidents happen when you don't expect them. You might see the
car ahead of you blow a tyre but you don't expect the tyre to blow, you
observe and react to it. A car ahead of you hit a patch of black ice
and spins, you observe them losing control and react to it. There will
be some types of accident where you can't expect the cause of the
accident and there will be some where you can. Whether or not the
accident becomes a car pulling over or a multi car pile up is in the
hands of the observation skills of the drivers around that car and
their ability to safety react.


The number of times I've been in a car with people, and something's
happened which they just plain didn't see developing... It's terrifying
how badly most drivers actually observe - yet think they're driving
perfectly safely, because they're staring intently at the back of the
car immediately in front of 'em. Or their speedo.
you can see a lot of things developing and good overservational skills
are essential to safe driving. but i think there will be rare times (
and i do think obervation will keep you out of trouble most of hte
time) when something will happen with little or no warning that you
can't predict by observation alone. Giving yourself extra space from
the car in front gives extra stopping margins. You can observe in
advance a car further down the road blowing a tyre and crashing and
stop in plenty of time but if that car is the car in front of you by
the time you observe it you need to start reacting and if you are to
close you won't be able to react in time. A second further back and
you would have time to oberve and react.


an accident can happen to the car in front of you, or the car in front
of that.
And that's why you almost certainly aren't looking far enough ahead.
Because you'll see that happen - probably even before it does.


you can have perfect visibility but still have to suddenly slam on the
breaks.

Then we can add you failing to leave a sufficient gap in front of you to
your lack of observation. Isn't that where we came in? You accusing
people of doing exactly what it seems as if you might well be doing
yourself?
eh? I've been arguing for a sufficent gap in front and i've never
stated that i don't view several cars in front. You've been the one
jumping to those conclusions. I said at the start that a truck
tailgating a car was dangerous. I've also said, seperately, that i do
think there will be the rare type of accident that can't be anticipated
( though most can be). Its this rare type of event that i'm talking
about. You seem quite happy to jump to conclusions based on wild
assumptions.


A Tyre blow out for example is something that visiblity probably won't
help with but could cause a multiple car pile up.

How often does that happen? *INCREDIBLY* rarely.
yep, i'm not saying otherwise but you seem to be imply it would never
happen.


All i'm saying is that by keeping a sensible gap thats going to give
people time to respond and break. Connor seems to be implying that a
two second gap isn't required for trucks because of their improved
visiblity... I wonder how much visibility the two trucks driving with
about a cars length between and the trucks in front of them had when i
passed them on the motorway this morning. about a car length i would
say...
Very probably. Could you to point to where I said that the truck
*wasn't* far too close, please?
So we both agree that you should leave sufficent gap with the vehicle
in front then.

If they're too close behind you, increase your gap to compensate. Then
you won't have to slam it all on, will you?

drive safetly regardless of what everyone else does is a good motto in
life. doesn't matter who is right or wrong if you're both in the
ground afterwards...

Quite.

Stop whining about other people's bad driving,
whats wrong wiht complaining about the low standards of driving on the
roads? certainly a big factor in the number of deaths each year?

and how things can just
happen "unexpectedly"
There are rare occassions when that happens. Its not the norm but it
happens.

and "it's not your fault" - and start to take
responsibility for your own safety.
where did i say i wasn't? You seem quite happy to place words in my
mouth like suggesting i don't observe more than one car in front and
that i don't leave enough of a stopping distance. Where did i say it
wasn't my fault? Just because i don't expect an incdient to happen
doesn't mean that i'd rather not avoid an accident.



Open your eyes. Look a bit further
ahead and around. Watch what the other vehicles are doing - if somebody
IS going to do something bloody silly, then you'll probably have a good
indication as to who it is before they do it.
I totallly agree with you. The only area where i disagree is that you
do get events, like black ice, tyre blow outs, that can't always be
spoted before they happen. In which case having a safe stopping
distance and good observation will stop you becoming part of the
accident. I'm not saying those kinds of things are the norm, they are
very rare.

Fod

Fod

.

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