Re: Committee of Advertising Practice loses the plot [0845/0870 numbers not to be refered to as local/national rate]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Paul Cupis <paul@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>>
>> So why, then, do you object to CAP stepping in to ban misleading
>> adverts?
>
> I don't object to this, and I don't think I've said that I do.
>
OK then, how about reading the title of *this* thread which *you* started!
Am I missing something, or can you actually say that someone has "lost the
plot" without objecting to what they are doing?

> I do object to people saying that 0870 numbers are not national rate,
> when they are defined as being national rate (before discounts, call
> packages etc).
>
I object to people using outmoded definitions to imply that these calls cost
the same as ringing your granny in Scunthorpe.

> I do object to people saying that BT Together Options are not call
> packages/discount schemes which allow them cheaper/free geographic
> calls - calls at prices lower that the published standard/basic
> tariff.
>
I object to people refusing to accept that - whatever the official
definitions may say - BTT Option 1 has become the de-facto standard for call
pricing to geographic numbers.

> I do object to 0870 and 0845 numbers being refered to as premium rate
> numbers, which according to Ofcom and industry definitions they are
> not.
>
I tend to agree with you on this one. Maybe there should be an alternative
definition. It is true, however, that calls are charged at a "premium" over
and above the cost of geographic calls - for the *vast* majority of
residential customers.

> I do object to people claiming that users are incapable of realising
> that 0870 numbers are not subject to the discounts BT offers certain
> customers for geographic calls. I don't believe, personally, that
> requiring adverts to state the BT Together discounted rates for 0870
> numbers, or even the non-discounted national rates is a step forward.
>
I object to people claiming that the "street" price for a commodity is
discounted just because it happens to be less than some bogus "list" price -
when in reality it is simply a market price, in line with market forces.

> People should be (made) aware of what telephone calls cost (and it is
> not as difficult as understanding the entire BT Price List). This IMO
> is not a job for advertisers, but for Ofcom themselves, in the same
> way
> that I do not believe that advertisers should be required to onyl use
> the correct display specification for geographic numbers (02x xxxx
> xxxx
> for example) just because Ofcom failed to educate the population
> themselves.
>
Education in this area is a good thing. The removal of anything which could
mislead is also good.

> I do object to people claiming that all users of 0845 and 0870 numbers
> are "scammers".
>
I don't think I've ever claimed that. But I do believe that their use should
be more tightly controlled.

> I do object to people saying that 0870 numbers (or any other range)
> should be "outlawed". Surely people can realise that 0870 is just a
> number range - if they have a problem with a tariff then they should
> deal with that, not spout nonsence about a sequence of four digits
> being illegal.
>
0870 numbers do have valid uses - in a relatively small number of instances
where a value added service is legitimately funded from a share of call
revenue. However, I do object to organisations - including government -
creaming off revenue for incoming calls at the expense of the caller when
there is *no* value added service provided. To this extent, the use of 0870
numbers *should*, in my view, be outlawed.

> And I do object to people making demonstrably false claims such as:
> * "No BT customer pays non-discounted rates."
> * "That rate is not what I pay therefore it doesn't exist."
> * "If you cannot specify the name and address of someone you know on
> a particular tariff, then it proves that noone is on that tariff."
>
I have personally never said any of these things. What I *have* said - and
will continue to say - is that the de-facto standard price for geographic
calls is the price paid by BTT Option 1 customers. Anything which implies
that 0870 calls cost the same as this is misleading. Any reference to
discounted prices in this context is purely based on technicalities - and
has little to do with reality.
--
Cheers,
Tim
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