Re: BT Pay & Call

Zed wrote:
> "dcuk" <dcuk@xxx> wrote in message
> news:Vf5Ce.71018$G8.47604@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> I am replying to dcuk's message since NT's message
> never arrived at my server ;-(
>
>
>>Nicholas Thomas wrote:
>>
>>>99.54%, actually :).
>>>
>>>You're still missing the point, Zed. BT Pay and Call is *qualitatively
>>>different* to a standad post-pay BT account.
>>>
>
>
> Hogwash !

Which point? First or second...

1. (100,000 (P+C customers) / 22,000,000 (BT lines)) x 100 (convert to
%) = 0.4545 rec. (ie. 99.5454 rec. % of lines are not P+C)

2. Qualitative, adj. : "of, relating to, or involving quality or kind"

In this case, we're talking about kind - i.e. BT Pay & Call is a
different *kind* of service to your normal 'post-pay' service. Unless
you're going to disagree with that statement, then you must accept that
it is a qualitatively different service.

So - which point is "hogwash", again?

>>>I don't know why you're ranting about cameras and light bulbs... I'm
>>>having difficulty seeing where they fit into things.
> The feature on TV adverts for BT Broadband

Ah. Now it all makes perfect sense.... well, I guess it would have done
if I'd seen the adverts.

Eh, you win some... you lose some :)


>>>You see, on BT Pay
>>>and Call, the services that you *can* get are identical to the services
>>>on post-pay.

> B*LL*CKS !!
> see terms and conditions on back(inside) page of
> Pay & Call "welcome" booklet................
> viz:
>
> " Welcome to BT Pay & Call, our revolutionary 'pay as you go' service
> for your BT fixed line phone service. With BT Pay & Call you can never
> run up a big bill without realising it."
>
> on the very last page of the booklet it says......
> "BT Services unavailable with BT Pay & Call
> Call Diversion Home Highway
> BT Working Together ISDN and ISDN2
> Broadband Light User Sceme
> Business Lines Ring Back When free
> Call Forwarding Surftalk
> Friends and Family
>
> BT Pay & Call Customers cannot order services via BT.com
>
> This was originally written in a reply to *you* in another thread !

Someone's in a good mood today, aren't they? READ what I say, please -
it saves us both time. I'll repeat: "...the services that you *can* get..."

Those services are NOT available on Pay&Call; therefore, I was NOT
talking about them.

*sigh*

Incidentally, why haven't you responded on the other threat yet? Run out
of things to disagree about without looking daft?


>>>Oh, and BT don't sell cameras or light bulbs...
>>>
>>>xF,
>>>
>>>...Nick
>>
>>You clearly haven't seen http://www.shop.bt.com/icat/dpdigitalcameras
>> then!
>
> [S***]

Lol - OK, they sell cameras, but not light bulbs :). Hehe. Well done.

Hey, they're a pretty good price, too. w00t! I need something for my
g/f's birthday.

> However the point is very clear ( unless you are a BT mole )
> We have paid, and we cannot get the services that credit
> customers can. And don't give us the ole b*ll*cks about
> it not being a service but simply a product, which in some
> tenuous legal definition is subtly different.

"B*ll*cks"? No, you see - it is a *very* important distinction... and
it's not subtle at all. A product is "Something produced by human or
mechanical effort or by a natural process"; a service is - in this sense
- "A facility providing the public with the use of something, such as
water or transportation." -- see the difference?

However in this case, I'm undecided; using those definitions, Broadband
(I would say) is more like a service - a good rule of thumb that I use
is that you (usually) own a product, but you (usually) rent a service.

But, I'm getting off track.

You have paid for a phone line. That is different to your Broadband - as
around 3% of the country can testify, just because you're paying for a
'phone line, doesn't mean that you're automatically entitled to get BB.
So your above point is moot. Regardless, BT is only obliged to provide
you with services covered under it's USO. Therefore, you are entitled
to: 1*analogue phone line, capable of data transfer at 28.8kbps.

Erm, that's it (I think). That is what your line rental pays for -
nothing else.

And why do you persist in calling me a "BT mole"? Do you have this idea
that I'm sat in a plush office somewhere, being paid £20ph to browse
newsgroups and forums, promoting BT? I WISH! It'd beat my current job,
hands-down :D. Bottom line is, I'm doing this in my own spare time,
because I *want to*. I read newsgroups and foruums like this, and where
I see questions I can answer, or debates I can contribute to, I DO. In
your case, I thought you were genuinely interested in the answer; now,
however, I can see that you're just interested in moaning because you
aren't getting what you want.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again - IF (and that's a big if, the
way things are looking right now) you can come up with a reasonable
argument for P+C customers getting Broadband, I'll do my very best to
make it happen for you.

So far, you've argued that it's illegal under LLU legislation (although
you were talking about AOL Broadband at the time, which is not LLU).
You've argued that there are a million customers on P+C, even though
(published) June 2005 figures show a figure just one tenth of that.
You've argued that it's technically feasible, and you've been shown that
it is not - at least, not right now. You've argued that it breaches all
sorts of other legislative bits and pieces, and yet you can't back that
up with a single piece of evidence, and BT's USO plainly shows that
you're wrong. You call asking for references being picky, and make
sweeping generalisations which don't hold water.

All in all, I'd say you've done a pretty piss-poor job of making any
kind of clear point at all, except that you're unhappy at being denied
Broadband. And then you go and reject/ignore constructive points
designed to get you out of the mess you got yourself into.

typical.


> BT are a load of snides, and cutting of thier own noses
> to spite thier own crass imbicilic faces, and costing thier
> own shareholders cash money. You and others may think
> that this is only a "toilet papers worth", but I say that
> millions of pounds is not to be sh*t upon !!

£4.7 million pounds per year - and even assuuming a profit of 50% (which
is pretty high), that's still onlu £2.35m/yr. That is the ABSOLUTE
MAXIMUM which BT could expect to see as profit from this, per year. In
the first few years, methinks it'd actually be considerably less than this.

Regardless of what you think, that IS pocket money - especially to a
large company like BT . and I doubt it'd cover the relevant development
costs.

How's this - why don't you develop and present a financial plan,
demonstrating how BT can earn a half-decent return on investment in the
first 2 years of providing BB to P+C customers? Don't forget to include
resolutions to all technical, legal and ideological concerns already
raised, as well as REALISTIC expectations of man-hour costs for R+D, as
well as rolling out the service, etc. good luck.

While you do that, I'm going to go and contribute my time to someone
who's actually half-way interested in listening.

xF,

....Nick
.