Re: Freeview HD recorders....when?

On Tue, 25 May 2010 16:18:39 +0100, Jim Lesurf <noise@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <9pinv5562erqjd3apoq5r1k1b0j7u1sb7n@xxxxxxx>, Mark
<i@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:03:26 +0100, Jim Lesurf <noise@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article


If the new government were /really/ serious about saving money they
would not renew Trident.

<ahem> I am not rushing forwards to argue against you on that. :-) Sounds
worth considering to me.

I was prepared for a bit of an argument there ;-) IIRC Trident will
cost £100bn over 10 years.


In the real world, the very few people who try to avoid Microsoft
power point, and Microsoft word, and insist on using one of the free
alternatives, end up looking foolish when it all goes wrong in public.

Ah, "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt", eh? The M$ reaction to anyone who
even thinks of trying out alternatives. 8-]

Microsoft solutions are so tightly ingrained into the nation that many
are not aware that there are alternatives. I get particularly annoyed,
for example, if one of my children's schools email an important document
in docx format. They have also insisted that their homework has to be
done in Microsoft Office, until I showed them Open Office.

I've often encountered similar examples of thinking that is blinkered by
the unthinking assumption that 'PC' = 'computer' = 'windows' and then
extends that to the 'standard' <sic> software for windows.

I can understand this in the general public if they only encounter 'home
computer' shops. But in professional - and particularly educational -
organisations I'd expect a different and more educated approach.

You may be surprised. I have worked with schools for many years and I
was initially shocked how little IT knowledge most teachers had.
Things are much improved now but I still have not suggested that they
move away from Windows.

They still prefer to use Microsoft since this is what they have at
school.

That seems fine with me if it is a matter of personal preference arrived at
after actually comparing with alternatives and deciding they prefer to pay
for that rather than use the resources some other way. People should have
individual freedom of choice. The problem is when they thoughlessly impose
it on others, or expect others to pay for their ignorance or lazyness or
arrogance.

Agreed. In the schools I know Microsoft was the only solution
considered.

Pleased to say that my own (semi-ex-)uni has a wider spectrum of
expectations and uses a range of systems/OS/software, allowing people to
choose what they prefer. The result is a much more mixed environment which
I think benefits all concerned.

Afraid that in my "real world" experience *all* of the occasions where
I've seen things like 'presentations' go wrong the software was
commercial items like PP. Lost count of how many lectures, conference
presentations, etc, I've seen that happen over the decades. So in my
case the practical evidence doesn't seem to agree with your theory. But
I'd agree that problems may well be due to the user, or some other
factor, not the software. :-)

Commercial software goes wrong sometimes. Open source software does
too. Swings and roundabouts.

Yes. The advantage of open is that you can lift the bonnet yourself, or get
anyone you choose to do so for you. Can pay or not. Not tied to the orginal
seller who has only 'loaned' you 'use' of the compiled code.

This is one of my real worries, typified by all kinds of 'big goventment'
projects. The people paid sheadloads to develop the code then get paid more
for any bugfixes, extensions, etc, etc, as they keep the source. In effect
they end up running the show and deciding the cost as changing to another
supplier means 'back to square one'.

I wish I could work on one of those contracts - sounds like money for
old rope ;-)

If you have the sources and the right
to alter them you can dump the original suppliers if they are a PITA. So
concentrate their mind on delivering something that works and is easy to
maintain, etc.

All our clients insist on being supplied with the full source code
(and most require the copyright too so we cannot reuse it for simular
products).

One of the problems of closed source is that you can't find and fix
bugs. You are stuck with "that's what it does." But my main point was
wrt the quasi-monpoly control by big (often ex-UK) companies over our
own free (in both senses) behaviour. Not just about the sheer cost in
terms of cash exported. We pay them money to control what we can do.

Indeed. With commerical software you are left at the whim of the company
on which (if any) bugs they choose to fix and which ones they ignore.
At least with OS software you can fix the bugs yourself (or pay someone
else to it) if you wish.

Yes.

FWIW I have no objection to commercial software and OS. Most of my daily
work for years uses it. But I do object to a situation where we all are in
a 'tail wags dog' situation when it comes to the sums public bodies spend
from our taxes.

Agreed. I buy and write commercial software. I use OS software and
have occasionally contributed time towards OS projects.

David may think M$ and all the other software sellers to the public bodies
are 'very cheap'. But I'll wait for the figures and details of where they
came from and how they were compiled. I suspect we are talking billions for
the UK, and we could use some of that to pay others as we chose to fix
bugs, etc, but where are the figures?

If we are now so poor, can we afford to go on paying microsoft and all the
other commercial companies without expecting the source code, the format
documentation, and the ability to use what we buy as *we* choose? And to
choose free alternatives if they suit.

However as I said above, I'd be pleased if the UK (and EU) did the
experiment. Require the government, etc, to use free and open software
and open formats. Then see if M$ can be cheaper and better. No need to
rely on your beliefs or mine. Let's do the experiment.

Good Idea. Got my vote ;-)

Alas, I guess the consultants, lobby types, MPs on 'directorships' etc will
end up deciding - as usual. So I won't hold my breath waiting... I doubt we
can even get a clear and complete number for the total cost to the UK. Too
much 'bundled pricing' and 'commercial confidential' from Sir Humpfrey and
the like... who expect to get business 'directorships' and 'consultantcies'
when they retire or leave public service <sic> and go to the companies they
give our money to...

Very true.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

.

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