Re: DAB Aerial
- From: Petert <peter.thomas8899@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 08:48:43 +0100
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:12:42 +0100, Edward W. Thompson
<thomeduk1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:22:11 +0100, charles
<charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <AeKdnX8WLcfN8BDVRVnyjgA@xxxxxx>,
Edward W. Thompson <thomeduk1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:33:12 +0100, Mike Henry
<{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
In <-YidnRxZZJ7EjBHVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@xxxxxx>, Edward W. Thompson
<thomeduk1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In my view a fair
hourly charge out rate for this work would be of the order of £50/hour
to include all overheads.
As if you didn't read any of the post from yesterday! People have
explained to you that those figures are wrong, and £50/hour is
unrealistically low and can't possibly include all the legally required
overheads, so why do you persist with it?
I don't think I am quite as stupid as you seem to think. Just because
someone say I am wrong does not make that true unless facts are
provided. I accept that it appears that £50/hour is less than
many/most aerial installers charge, my own experience supports that,
but that doesn't mean it is not excessive (a rip-off) for the work
done and the skills required.
[Snip]
Taking 'equipment' into account, if we allow £10,000 for a van and say
£5000 for other equipment
I wonder when you last went shopping for these things? List price of a
Transit - for instance - is over £20K.
Ok so we wil double the equipment budget to £30k and correspondingly
increase the allowance/hour for servicing to £5/hour. This still does
not significantly increase the 'fair' hourly rate.
I'vce already included an allowance for 'overheads' or don't you know
amortized over 5 years at 8% (I think that's reasonable and possibly
high) the cost will be of the order of £300/month which equates to
£2.57/chargeable hour.(hope my arithmetic is correct :-)).
and this van & equipment needs maintaining......
and you've forgotten insurance - personal accident and public liability,
both will be high because ladders are involved
what 'overheads' are?
Perhaps you would care to justify a higher hourly rate with your
figures? Taking another trade as an example, painters and decorators
seem very happy with £25/hour. Are their overheads less, and is their
trade less skilled?
Yes. I've never heard of decorators needing expensive test equipment, nor
do they tend to have their van full of paint - they wait for the job and
then buy the materials.
Absolute nitpicking. I have include £5000 ( now modified to £10,000
for equipment. An adequate amount by anyone's standard.
An adequate amount by YOUR standards perhaps, but not necessarliy by
the standards of others.
I do not object to paying a fair price for work and services but I do
object to being ripped off.
but you've been "ripped off" because of your belief as to what is a fair
price.
It is not a belief. I have shown how I arrived at the 'fair' hourly
rate and I find it very interesting not to say enlightening that no
one, so far, seems to be able to show why the hourly man rate should
be closer to £100/hour than £50/hour. Is that perhaps you/they can't?
What you've shown is how you've arrived at a rate that you consider to
be fair. This may not meet up with the rate that other people think is
fair.
and, I am not, and never have been, in the aerial trade.
I accept that installing aerials is not a trade where you will 'make'
your fortune. Most hard working people will not make a fortune but
there is a distinct trend for some in certain trades to charge
unreasonably high prices and justify the practice by showing that is
what people are willing to pay (my definition of rip-off). They pay
it either because they have no choice, because they are gullible or
because they have more money than sense.
This is called free amrket economics. People are free to ask what they
think reflects a reasonable price for their labour, having considered
the nature of the work, the amount of competion that exists and the
liklehood of finding customers willing/able to pay. The customer is
free to chose not to employ anyone if they are not happy with the
price quoted or the apparent quality of the work carried out for
others
As an example I needed two radiators, that were grossly undersized,
to be replaced by radiators of a suitable size. The retail price of
the radiators (Internet 'Screwfix' price) was £65/radiator (6000BTU).
I assume the trade price was likely to be less but perhaps not
significantly less. I was quoted by two 'Central Heating' contractors
£400.00 (plus minus a few pennies) for the job (supply and fit) and
one contractor £220.00. The contractor who quoted £220 did the job
and yes he was a member of the relevant trade association ( CORGI,
IoP). The work took a little more than one hour. Although I said to
use the existing valves, he replaced one TRV and the other valves as
he wasn't 'happy' with their condition. I assume the 'margin' in the
price allowed for that.
I may be wrong, but you really don't need a corgi registered gas
fitter to fit a radiator.
The plumber that carried the work out for you was correct in changing
the valves - the existing ones were of unknown age, and their
efficiency was also unknown. he has probably saved you the grief of a
leak and himself the grief of having to return to an unhappy customer
(you) to fix a problem that would not have occured had you taken his
advice.
Now do you seriously think the Contractor who charged £180 less was
working at a loss or do you think, as I do, there was some fundamental
dishonesty by the high bidders? I think this is best described as a
rhetorical question.
There can be no dishonesty in a quote for a job that is higher than
others. in fact i would go so far as to say there is more likely to be
dishonesty in too low a quited price.
--
Cheers
Peter
.
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