Re: Horseman of the Apocalypse (he's never even seen a)

In article <ngc88259anh0tquhb74rn5hc84att2ojil@xxxxxxx>,
demosthenes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:36:50 GMT, Cypher <cypher@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

<snip lots>
The following...

You've toodled onto a subject dear to my inner webcockles. Many years
ago now when I was a young whippernsapper, and this fair group nought
but trousers, I was involved in a bit of alternative energy malarky.
I'm not sure it was worldchanging, but I like to think I've done my
tiny little bit for the planet and that I have a smidgen of insight
into the global warming shebang...

Over the years I've read any number of books/articles that contained some
mention of all of the increasing number of troubles we face but for some reason
none of it gelled into any form of thought that I needed to prepare or get
actively involved in trying to do something to help out. I'm still bemused that
I had such a shock a couple of months ago when I realised just how stupid I've
been. It was rubbing salt into my mental wounds when I saw how long some of the
warning signs have been on the web, with active posters and archives of several
years worth of foreboding posts. How the *** did I not stumble across these
sites sooner? I've been surfing long hours for 99.9% of the days in the last 10
years, yet I don't recall ever seeing any of these signposts. I know the
answers, to be honest, I was a grubby fucker looking in all the wrong places for
much of that time but since the last American election I've been reading some
political blogs every day and yet I still only found the peak oil community a
couple of months ago and that has been around for a number of years in one form
or another. The chap responsible for dieoff.org was banging his drum in the mid
90s, but perhaps if I'd seen his info then I wouldn't have paid it any heed
anyway. ***, maybe I have even seen his site before and paid it no attention,
surely I would have stumbled across it when I was searching for sites on death
when I went through my attempt to rationalise my own mortality a couple of years
ago.

Never managed to rationalise that by the way, I still think the whole idea of
dying sucks. 99% of the time, anyway.

Global warming is the big daddy `*** you, cunts' to be sure but it is going to
affect us a lot quicker, in tandem with other events, than the melting of the
icecaps will. And those melting icecaps will affect us soon enough, easily
within our lifetimes, because the computer models are only as good as the data
that goes into them and scientists are discovering new data all the time, data
that has some of them very concerned.

Speaking of melting icecaps, a colleague at work showed me a piccie of
the artic circle. It was bloody bloody disturbing ... oh ... here it
is .. apparently the arctic cap has shrunk 20% since 1979. It's more
when you look at the actual physicality of the picture you tend to go
'woah'.

http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/images/fcons5.jpg

Course, that doesn't affect sea levels much since most of the arctic
ice is floating in the ocean anyway.

Yep, the real action is the land ice melting. Once the ice shelves go though it
has been noted the ice on the land starts moving more rapidly toward the sea.
Many countries are also facing troubling times due to the high rate of glacial
melt and lack of snow cover on the mountains because the rivers run dry when the
source of water disappears. 3 minutes without oxygen, 3 days without water, 3
weeks without food is one equation I've seen.

http://www.vims.edu/bio/microbial/NBPishelf.html

(snip financial voodoo)

The biggest poke in the eye though is the food you eat to stay alive relies on
cheap available energy. No production, you starve, unless you grow it yourself.
And you'd better be prepared to defend that cabbage when the slavering droids
realise you have a cabbage.

I think you'll agree it's not going to all the oil will disappear at
once, Cyph. But it's going to become an awful lot more expensive than
it currently is.

Yeah, I'd agree with that, Demo. Oil will still be pumped for years to come but
there will have to be a massive contraction in the way it is used. The most
obvious one is transportation and the US is in for some major problems, also the
use of oil and gas for heating homes is going to be problematic. Countries that
have the resources will want to hang onto them instead of exporting in large
quantities.

I'm more inclined toward scenarios of doom and gloom, dramatic population falls
due to disease and violence, and likely those reasons are purely selfish. And
here's why: I could see my life mapped out, barring nasty incidents and disease,
perhaps another 30 years if I'm to reach my three score and ten. If I were to
live out those years they would blur together as the last 40 have, a little bit
of this a little bit of that, I've had no complaints nor really envisage having
many to look forward to as long as Nunn's bad run continues. However, if the
*** hits the fan things are going to get interesting and survival will no
longer be as guaranteed as it is today, luck holding. I wouldn't be foolish
enough to suggest I could defend myself against all that anarchy could throw at
me, there are people trained to be aggressors, but I definitely don't belong in
the `roll over and die while I turn the other cheek' group. But you know, I
might be wrong about myself, I could be lily-livered, I've never had to face the
clouds on the horizon. It looks like I might get the chance to discover
something about myself and that thought has given me a ball of excitement in my
stomach that just won't go away. There is a school of thought in some of the
forums I read that doomers are out to lunch but I think those who cannot fathom
the thought of out and out collapse will have a much more difficult time of
dealing with realities should they eventuate.

Talk of billions dying doesn't concern me, the method in which a person dies
might give me pause for thought but why should I care about the death of someone
I didn't know existed until I heard of their demise? Empathy? Nonsense, a true
empath couldn't get out of bed.

(snip)

and of course, a place like Iran is just another amusing add-in to the
pile. If everything goes pear shaped there, watch the price of oil
skyrocket.

I reckon the Iranians have the right to nuclear power, the associated dangers
aside, because they will need an alternative power source eventually. Every
country should be allowed them, they will all need them sooner or later. I'm
wise to the inherent problems of nuclear energy and these will only increase as
more plants are brought online but until a viable equivalent is invented what
are you going to do? As for nuclear arms, it should be stated loud and clear,
publicly, that any country who uses them against another country will be turned
into glass, immediately. Even America. In fact, I'd outlaw the use of all
weapons that enable you to kill someone without seeing the whites of their eyes.

Here's a thought I had the other day, I haven't ascertained timelines or even
looked into it much but the thought appeals to me. We are on the brink of what
could be a massive decline, much like the one the Romans faced. Was the
Colosseum the beginning of the decline? In much the same way the proliferation
of Stadia around the world could herald our own? Creations to keep the populace
amused and off-guard while society crumbles around them? Will we see a latter
day version of the gladitorial bloodsports practiced in Roman times in these
very same stadia one day? I think we might and I also think if this was the only
sanctioned violence it would be much better than the random killing we live with
today.

the planet a hostile environment) but it is your duty to be counted amongst
those that survive any initial breakdown, to outlast those around you who
don't/can't, either because they couldn't adapt or weren't prepared.

Have you ever watched Millenium, Cypher?

No, the name doesn't ring a bell. I went down the video store to rent Twister
again the other day just to wet my appetite for destruction. I'd walk through a
tornado if Helen Hunt was waiting for me on the other side.

(snip wise alternative energy talk)

Keeping these for future reference ...

Demosthenes

Good man, Demo. As long as at least one of you thinks about stocking up on bog
paper I consider my initial post a success.

--
Cypher

p.s Here are the lyrics for Tool's song Vicarious off 10,000 Days. Very apt, I
reckon. A hell of an album, Demo. Jambi has worked its way into my Top 5 all
time great songs for the moment.

Vicarious by Tool


Eye on the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"She used a poison
in his tea...kissed him goodbye"
That's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie

While the mother holds her child
Watches them die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"

Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
Will write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...

Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain come down
Drum on grave and ground

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur
Stare at the transmittal
Sing to the death rattle

La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)

Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
Pull your head on out, your head believes it give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been

We all feed on tragedy
Like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I
.

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