Re: First time view of a planet
- From: "oriel36" <geraldkelleher@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 3 Mar 2007 02:34:48 -0800
On Mar 2, 7:42 pm, Claudio Grondi <claudio.gro...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
[...]
Could it be,
that this should actually be the right perspective to look at the Solar
system as this plane is supposed to be the main plane of Sun's rotation
and therefore it makes sense to tilt the planes of the planetary orbits
on the schemata to show how the solar system goes?
Is the plane Pluto is orbiting the same as the plane perpendicular to
Sun's rotation axis?
Thanks in advance for enlightening me here and sorry if (some of the)
questions don't make perfect sense (in this case please just try to
guess what I am asking for).
In between on my way to some more understanding I have run into this link:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/solarsystem/eclip...
If the angles given on that page are the right ones, the tilt of the
Earth rotation axis (23.5 degree) measured relative to the Ecliptic
plane is three times larger than the the tilt of the Sun rotation axis
(7 degree). Therefore, even choosing the plane perpendicular to the Sun
rotation axis as the reference plane shown in form of a horizontal line
in schemes for explaining the reason for seasons won't change the fact,
that the tilt of Earth rotation axis remains the major effect to
consider also in this new reference system.
You may out of your depth but at least you are trying .Most
intelligent people do take note of the dilemma provided by the
standard explanation for the seasons based on variable axial tilt in
respect to the solar radiation/orbital shadow boundary -
http://www.astronomy.org/programs/seasons/pictures/09reasons-for-seasons-general.gif
The solution places emphasis on the alteration of the radiation/shadow
boundary whereas the less suitable explantion keeps that boundary
fixed hence the pseudo-dynamic of axial tilt as seen in the graphic
above.
It is important for the modified view allows a clear distinction
between global climate and hemispherical weather patterns (seasons).It
does not draw conclusions but allows for more productive working
principles based on actual images of the Earth from space rather than
the 17th century scaffolding of celestial sphere geometry,the source
you are using.
If I understand it the right way, it appears to me, that oriel36 has a
problem with understanding the Equinoxes when given the schematics:
http://www.astronomy.org/programs/seasons/pictures/09reasons-for-seas...
as he writes:
"If you look at the standard view of what causes the seasons using
variable axial tilt,it appears to make sense until you try to express the Equinoxes into the same picture"
probably because he thinks, that the Earth axial tilt is variable. In my
understanding the axial tilt of Earth in the reference system being the
Ecliptic plane remains the same all the time (let's neglect the very
slight precession effect).
Most participants here eventually drop the pretense of a technical
discussion as they go through the process of defending untenable
concepts and what you are doing now is predictable as I have seen this
too many times to care.You are no longer addressing me and that is
fine,my business is to make participants aware that a major
modification is neccessary to bring astronomy in line with terrestrial
sciences such as climatology by meshing them accurately using
availible images of the Earth from space.
At the Equinox position of Earth on its orbit around the Sun, the Earth
rotation axis is fully within the plane perpendicular to the line
connecting Earth and Sun - therefore in this special constellation the
magnitude of the Earth axis tilt won't affect the effect of having an
equal long day and night on any point on Earth at all.
No wonder McIntyre felt it neccessary to tell you to shut up but you
are new here and can be forgiven for not knowing the protocol.What you
do now is agree with Mark and quietly wander back into oblivion.
In any case,in a few weeks the radiation/shadow boundary denoting the
orbital path and motion of the Earth splits the geographical axis -
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Seasonearth.png
This truly global view replaces the hemispherical version based on a
pseudo-dynamic of axial tilt.For those who are interested,it is easier
to grasp the modified view by looking at the relationship between
axial orientation with the radiation shadow boundary as the Earth's
orbital path crosses a line perpendicular to the maximum solar
diameter rather than the unsatisfactory view which concentrates axial
tilt at the Soltices.
To see this clearly on an extreme example it is maybe helpful to imagine
the Earth rotation axis tilted 90 degree i.e. being within the plane of
Earths orbit around the Sun - in such case both polar circles would come
together at the equator.
It could maybe also help to understand the Equinoxes to imagine how the
schematics
http://www.astronomy.org/programs/seasons/pictures/09reasons-for-seas...
would look like when the Equinox positions of Earth were shown. In that
case the picture won't show any tilt of Earth rotation axis because when
a vertical line gets tilted in the plane going through the point of the
observation and this line itself, the tilt can't be seen and the line
remains visually vertical.
You may be new to astronomy but you are an old hand at bluffing and
blustering that most here will not appreciate.Most of them already
know that the substance of seasonal weather variations is due to the
orbital path of the Earth and a change in the radiation/shadow
boundary but the modification would upset the celestial sphere
scaffolding on which their observations and 'predictions' are based.
It may have been convenient from the 17th century to retain the
framework but it is simply not worth it today,too much valuable
information ignored or going to waste in an era when meshing climate
with the motions of the Earth needs a complete overhaul
The link I found
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/solarsystem/eclip...
gives the values for tilt of Earth and Sun rotational axes and the tilt
of Pluto's orbit relative to the Ecliptic, but gives no hints about the
orientation of this tilts. I would be happy if someone could share here
a link to a 3D solar system simulation showing also both the rotation
axes of Earth and Sun and maybe also of all other planets together with
the orbiting axes of the planets.
Claudio Grondi
I am sure that many here are delighted to see me wind down my presence
in these newsgroups and this forum returns to a diluted form of
astronomy based on magnification.The dynamics of astronomy are all but
lost or misdirected to counter-productive concepts yet there is always
an occasion when somebody does see that the motions of the Earth make
our existence possible therefore we should pay more attention to what
is actually happening.
.
- References:
- Re: First time view of a planet
- From: John Carruthers
- Re: First time view of a planet
- From: oriel36
- Re: First time view of a planet
- From: Claudio Grondi
- Re: First time view of a planet
- From: oriel36
- Re: First time view of a planet
- From: Claudio Grondi
- Re: First time view of a planet
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