Re: Ancient sites and bodily sensations

In article <3o0jiqF3jh1hU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
janet <janetifimust@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Nuala wrote:
> > In article <3nj23sF1n3t7U1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> > janet <janetifimust@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Nuala wrote:
> > [snip lots of stuff; go read the thread] Which is an understandable
> > stance, but still a choice. So why not use the word, Will, and see the
> > magic more clearly?

> Hmmm. I don't dispute what you are saying, I'm thinking it through.

> Ah, I see what I mean by the difference. At the time, I *will* (in
> the Uncle Al sense as well as the simple linguistic one) to save the
> child.

> In the hypothetical situation, I *must* will to do so. Hence why I
> used one word not the other.

Hmm.

English is my first language, and I'm old enough to have been taught it
rather well. I mean no disrespect. Perhaps there is another of these
annoying upbringing things?

Will, shall, want, need, must, should, ought; all very different words.

You are using must, should and ought, and arguably need, in a
grammatically incorrect manner. Thus, you are binding yourself with words
in a way that you may wish not to choose. As you do so, you are altering
your neurochemistry accordingly. I was taught to be a great deal more
careful since although I'll glibly say that I use no tools, this is
patently absurd. I use English every day.

> >>> But I've just admitted, freely and with a glad heart, to being
> >>> unethical a fair percentage of the time. I recognise professional
> >>> ethics and I abide by them. I recognise Blood-kin, Tribe, and
> >>> Family, and I choose *not* to be ethical because it might limit my
> >>> choices, and I will not knowingly give up choices as far as
> >>> Blood-kin, Tribe or Family are concerned.

> >> And how is that not a personal ethic?

> > I think you were closer with 'Code'.

> Grin - fair enough but I'm having trouble getting my head around the
> difference, and I suspect that the difference is the baggage one
> carries that the other does not.

I aim not to be bound in any way from actions I might want to keep in
reserve with and for the people that I love most.

There is a world of difference, I think, in that sentence as compared to
any where the words must, should or ought are used 'incorrectly'.

If I am to leave every option open, then my being must remain unbound.

> > And I would say that since I have[1] both a professional Code of
> > Ethics and Code of Honour, this isn't the same at a level that I'm
> > obviously struggling to communicate.

> Right, with you there.

> In the same way, there is an ethical code which I follow as a
> researcher, but I would do so whether it was there or not because of
> the more deeply ingrained code of ethics which I carry all the time,
> tape recorder or no. (1)

Ah. Whereas I accept the binding of my profession, but not otherwise.

> > I'm going to say, 'military language' again, and teach myself more
> > Gaelic.

> And I still have to learn Greek...

Ooh, don't!

I want to learn Russian. Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy...

<whimpers slightly>

[snip]
> > So: if we are accurately to grok ourselves, we should examine
> > everything? To be on the safe side? <innocent grin>

> Yes.

> But most of the time we don't.

Who is 'we'? <smile>

> >> However, life, learning and practice are the best answers I can
> >> give.

> > So what place does, how did you describe it, 'first principles of
> > action' play in your mundane life?

> Bedrock. (And I deny the mundane/not mundane split as well). :)

Perhaps, but you are creating a difference between what parts of your
life you examine. So how effective is your attempt to deny the
dichotomy? <wg>

[snip]
> >> Yes. In essence, that's what this is doing - I listen and learn but
> >> in the end, I must (yes, I know) trust myself and my decisions.

> > Can I tempt you to go with 'choose to trust yourself', to see how it
> > feels?

> Yup - it feels much the same as it did what, six years ago when I
> had much this same discussion with a long time lurker and was forced
> to face many of these issues. :)

Such things repay the occasional revisit, I have found.

But then, I'm such a bitch to students that I wonder sometimes why they
keep recommending me to the ones who come after them. <smile>

[snip]
> Which shoe do you put on first in the morning? (Don't look at me,
> Idon't wear the things unless I have to).

It depends.

But I'm ambidextrous, so perhaps it is not such a useful question.

> I submit that the choice is habit, rather than ritual for most
> people *because* there is no great significance to choosing one over
> the other to begin the process of becoming shod.

What, never?

> If, however, one were convinced that one would fall all day long if one
> put on the left shoe first, then putting the right one on first MIGHT be
> ritual...

Or OCD. <g>

> [snip Plato... ouch!]

> >> Why do you associate the examined life with bonds?

> > Several reasons:

> > You quoted Socrates, I quoted Plato, or possibly still Socrates.
> <g>

> Ahh, ancient philosopher Ludo. Such fun on a Sunday :)

We shall play many times and often then.

It will give Oak a day of rest. <g>

> > Also, the examined life requires a sacrifice, in terms of loss, death,
> > time, and so forth.

> Oh, so very yes - yet how many never realise?

I was going to say that my students get bindings and sacrifices and more
besides rammed down their throats, and then thought better of it.

> > Humans, or so I have observed, like to avoid such things. Some will
> > even forego the pleasure of loss by refusing to accept the attachment.
> > SO to what, in the place of such attachments, are they anchoring
> > themselves?

> A question I have never really understood the answer to.

A***? <g>

> As you know, I chose the other way.

Invest in loss. See the value of tears.

> > And now it gets *really* interesting...

> Yup...

> > 1 2 3, 1 2 3...

> Matilda! :)

<g>

I'm thinking of a quote from a programme that Oak and I watch together:

'It seems to me you either show up for the dance, or you stay home.
1 2 3, 1 2 3...' Dead Like Me


NP: The White Stripes, Hotel Yorba

~Love and blessings~

--
~Phenobarbidoll~
'Occasionally I am callous and strange.'

'I like to think of you more as my witless foil.' - Xander, BtVS
.