Re: Fwd: I'm tempted to convert to ISLAM


"The SPIRIT OF TRUTH" <avatar1.shyke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1127256042.464562.192270@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH
>
> Dear Rock
>
> You quoted out of context the following verses:
>
> >Sura 9:29 reads: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the
> >latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have
prohibited,
> >nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all
other
> >religions) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the
Christians)
> >until they pay the jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing
submission
> >and feel themselves subdued. (with humiliation and submission to the
> >government of Islam.)" (Commentary in parenthesis is from the Tafsir
> >Al-Jalalein. i.e., Al-Jalalein Interpretation of the Koran.)
>
> These verses have been revealed with reference to a particular
> historical context. Reading them divested from that historical context
> is like you taking a picture out of your desk, covering the top part
> of the picture with your hand and asking "why is this picture ugly, I
> can only see my shoes in it".
> In order to help you form a view of the historical context in which
> most of the verses that have military reference, can be understood I am
> copying one of my posts which I wrote before in another place on this
> ng:
>
> Dear V S Rawat
>
>
> You said:
>
>
>
> >You conveniently not mentioned that Mohammed himself was
> >from this Quraish Tribe of Mecca (clan of Hashim). He
> >himself had ditched his own relatives and community.
>
>
> You seem to have good knowledge of the life of my beloved prophet
> Mohammad. However, you don't seem to know that Mohammad was driven
> out
> from Mecca to seek refuge in Medina. That his property and the
> properties of all the Muslim who were with him was confiscated by
> Quraish which was indeed his tribe as you rightly say. Your knowledge
> of his life should include the fact that Muhammad remained in Mecca for
>
> thirteen years before emigrating to Medina amid a plot to assassinate
> him on the same night of his emigration night.
> If you are an honest, fair-minded seeker of the truth I am sure you
> will
> recognize that for those thirteen years Muhammed's only fault was that
> he preached the religion of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Moses, Jesus and
> all
> the prophets mentioned in the bible to his people in a peaceful manner.
>
> All historical sources agree that the first three years of his
> prophetic mission were spent inviting people to Islam secretly. That
> after three years he went to Mount Safa near the Ka'ba and called
> each tribe by name and informed them of his mission as a messenger
> calling them to abandon all forms of idolatry and to go back to the
> worship the God of Abraham and all the prophets of his offspring.
> I am sure you will remember that His tribe Quraish started persecuting
> Muhammad and his followers from that moment onwards to the extent that
> they killed the first martyrs in Islam a slave called Yasir, and his
> wife Sumayya who were murdered under torture in front of their son
> Ammar.
> I hope that you will also remember that around the fifth year of the
> prophets ministry 15 men and women had to emigrate to Abyssinia to
> escape persecution (the first Habasha Hijra). That they returned the
> next year after news that the persecution has abated. That because of
> renewed persecution 70 men and women had to emigrate on year seven of
> the prophets Ministry back to Abyssinia where they faced questioning by
>
> King Najashi at first and then given asylum by him.
> That from year 7 till year 10 the Quraish imposed a harsh boycott on
> Muhammad and his clan(Banu Hashim) whom you mentioned in your reply.
> That very soon after the end of the boycott both Muhammad's uncle and
> protector Abu Talib the Chief of the Banu Hashim clan and Khadeeja the
> wife and financial aid of Muhammad died and he was left with no
> protection in Mecca. That due to the lack of any protection in Mecca he
>
> left for Ta'if, a neighboring town with some influential people living
> in it, hoping to receive some form of support or protection but to his
> dismay he was stoned and expelled in the most humiliating manner. That
> he took refuge by a dilapidated wall outside Ta'if and prayed the
> famous most beautiful prayer ever made by a prophet to His Lord in such
>
> circumstances saying:
> "O Allah I complain to thee my lack of energy, shortage of ideas and
> the fact that they (mankind) have lost all respect for me. O you most
> Merciful of all! Who do you leave me to? To friends on whom I depend
> or to enemies who attack me. However, in the health you bestowed on me
> there is some more room (for serving you) . I seek refuge in the noble
> light of thy countenance, due to which the heavens and the earth have
> become illuminated and the affairs of this world and the next have been
>
> established, that thy anger may not descend on me nor your displeasure
> befall me. Nevertheless, the privilege is yours to reproach me until
> you are satisfied and there is no power nor might except with Allah the
>
> most High the Magnificent."
> I hope that you will remember that he (Muhammad) could not enter Mecca
> again until he sent his slave and adopted son Zaid Ibnul Harith to
> seek the protection of Mut'im Ibnu 'adi a notable of Quraish who
> was moderate in his positions towards Muhammad and his followers.
> Quraish did all the above to Muhammad and the Muslims before any
> sanction for self defense was given to the Muslims. The only form of
> self defense they were allowed was emigration.
> I hope you will remember that over the last two years of Muhammad's
> ministry in Mecca around 71 men and two women from Medina accepted
> Islam and met the prophet during the pilgrimage season pledging to
> protect him and his followers if they emigrate to Medina, which is
> exactly what happened.
> Now you need to remember that on the night of his secret flight from
> Mecca to Medina the Quraish had plotted to assassinate Muhammad using
> forty young men from forty Quraishi clans so that Banu Hashim would
> not be able to retaliate his assassination.
> All these thirteen years of persecution leading to the flight of
> Muhammad and his followers to Medina were not enough for Quraish. As
> soon as they realized that Muhammad had succeeded in finding a safe
> haven in Medina they decided to confiscate all the belongings of the
> Muslims in Mecca.
> An honest researcher would study the battle of Badr with this
> background in mind. Some of the belongings of the Muslims were sent to
>
> be sold in Syria in a merchant caravan lead by Abu Sufian a prominent
> leader among the Quraish leadership. Muhammad received sanction from
> God in a verse still to be read in the Holy Qur'an confirming this
> particular import.
> "22:39 To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to
> fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful
> for their aid;-
>
> However, the caravan managed to elude the Muslims by changing route,
> but Quraish who was so used to bullying the Muslims and abusing them
> continuously couldn't resist this opportunity to teach them a lesson
> for daring to attempt an attack on one of their caravans to Syria.
> It is true that the Muslims went out to attack Quraish's commercial
> caravan. However the caravan escaped and Quraish could have returned to
>
> Mecca without bloodshed; but they didn't and insisted on attacking
> the Muslims who gave them a terrible surprise by winning the battle and
>
> killing around seventy of Quraish's soldiers including some of its
> most prominent leaders.
> This was the only battle with Quraish in which the Muslims were not on
> the defensive. In Uhud and the Trench Quraish and its allies were
> attacking Muslims in their safe haven hoping to uproot them once for
> all. The Jewish tribes have unfortunately allied themselves with the
> persecutors of the Muslims, after signing agreements with the prophet
> to live peacefully with the Muslims in Medina.
>
> Now back to the verses. As you can see from the above Mohammad started
> preaching the religion of Abraham at the age of 40. Between forty and
> fifty three years of age the idol worshippers of Mecca waged continuous
> war on Muhammad and his followers. Quraish (Muhammad's larger tribe
> which declared war on him and his followers) killed Muslims who did not
> have a clan to stand for them and persecuted the rest in the worst
> manner possible. This war on Islam culminated in a plot to assassinate
> Muhammad after he managed to sneak, in small groups, all his followers
> to the safe haven of Medina. He, his companion Abu Bakr and his cousin
> Ali were the last to remain in Mecca.
> When Muhammad, Abu Bakr and Ali (being the last of the Muslims) arrived
> safely in Medina, the idolaters of Quraish decided to go and confiscate
> all their belongings in Mecca, another chapter in this war against a
> group of people whose only fault was to say there only one God and
> Muhammad is the last of his messengers (the capstone).
> As you can see for thirteen years the Muslims' only allowed self
> defense was emigration to Abyssinia twice and finally to Medina. Even
> after they arrived in Medina the idolaters of Quraish did not stop
> their economic war against the Muslims. In the post above you will
> notice that I discussed the first military encounter between the
> Muslims and the idolaters at the wells of Badr. I have explained very
> clearly that the Muslims went out to confiscate a trade caravan lead by
> Abu Sufian which contained revenue made by selling the belongings of
> the Muslims in Mecca. Although the Muslims missed the caravan, the army
> of the idolaters insisted on attacking the Muslims and giving them a
> lesson. The Muslims, because of a previous promise by Allah to bring
> Muhammad's army under hisf feet won the battle against all the odds.
> You need to understand dear Rock that from now on Quraish waged too
> major battles on Medina to extirpate Islam from its roots but failed
> (the battle of Uhud and the battle of the trench). The Muslims simply
> defended their safe haven Medina. In Uhud the Muslims had a severe
> military set back but managed to survive. In The Trench the Muslims
> resisted a ten thousand man army from most of the tribes of Arabia by
> digging a trench around the plain borders of Medina. Quraish surrounded
> Medina for about a month but failed to break into the city. On the last
> night of their encampment around Medina God sent a strong wind which
> extinguished their fires and threw away their tents and their water
> containers. Quraish got scared feeling that God had finally come to the
> support of Muhammad so they made their way back to Mecca.
> After one year only of this encounter in which God won the battle for
> the Muslims without them having to fight, Muhammad had a dream which he
> knew was from God that he was performing pilgrimage to Allah's House
> (the Ka'ba) in Mecca. So he and the Muslims set out in the white
> clothes of pilgrims to a hostile Mecca which only last year made an
> attempt to extirpate Islam from Medina.
> The Meccans met him on the outskirts of Mecca and asked him to turn
> back and not to attempt to enter Mecca against their will. After give
> and take the two parties concluded a peace treaty which sounded more
> favorable to the Meccan idolaters than to the Muslims. They agreed on
> the following
> a)-That Muhammad and the Muslims should turn back and return to Medina
> that year (year 6 after the emigration from Mecca to Medina known as
> Hijra).
> b)-The Muslims will be allowed to perform their pilgrimage the
> following year.
> c)- Any Meccan Idolater who decides to join the Muslims in Medina has
> to be returned to Mecca.
> d)-Any Muslim who decides to renounce Islam and return to Mecca should
> be allowed to do so freely.
> c)-For the duration of the treaty (10 years) the Muslims will not
> attack Quraish or any of its allied tribes and vice versa.
> This treaty is historically known as the treaty of Hudaibia, the place
> were Muhammad and the Muslims pitched their camp in the outskirts of
> Mecca.
> What is famous about this treaty is that most of the companions of the
> prophet found the terms of the treaty unnecessarily in favor of
> Quraish and felt humility at having to turn back and not perform their
> pilgrimage to Allah's Holy House, first built by Abraham and his son
> Ishmael, when every idolater in the whole world was allowed to visit
> it.
> The following year (year 8 )Muhammad and the Muslims performed the
> pilgrimage as agreed with Quraish. A year later, Quraish broke their
> treaty with the Muslims and attacked a tribe allied with the Muslims
> killing some of its men. Muhammad marched on Mecca with ten thousand
> saints, who worked during the day and kept vigils during the night.
> Mecca had no way of resisting Allah's army so Abu Sufyan went out to
> the Muslim camp facing Mecca on the night of their arrival and declared
> Islam himself.
> In the Morning the Muslim army entered the city without fight except
> for one group of fanatics who decided to stand to a Muslim detachment
> and took were routed without difficulty.
> Muhammad reentered his beloved homeland a victor after he left it a
> fugitive. Every body gathered near the Ka'ba to hear Muhammad's
> verdict on Quraish who persecuted him and his followers for thirteen
> years and pursued him to Medina with war after war to uproot him, his
> followers and the religion of his great great father Abraham.
> When he(peace and blessings be on him) finished breaking the idols
> inside the Ka'ba and around it he stood and spoke to the people of
> Mecca, his own cousins who did every thing in their power to hurt him.
> He said:
> What do you think I am going to do with you?
> They answered: You're a noble brother, the son of a noble brother.
> He said off you go, you are free.
> Not a single person killed in retaliation. Just go you are free.
> Immediately, every body in Mecca became a Muslim except for a few stiff
> necks who went to Tai'f, near Mecca and started regrouping and
> planning with the local leadership to surprise the Muslims with a
> counter attack. However, the Muslims did not rest for long in Mecca
> before they marched on Ta'if . On the way to Ta'if the Muslim army
> was ambushed and sustained heavy losses but continued to Ta'if and
> subdued it without much resistance. Immediately after the fall of these
> two major cities to the Muslims, delegations from all over Arabia
> started to arrive in Mecca declaring their desire to enter Islam and
> giving their oath of fealty to the prophet.
> The verse you, Rock, quoted must be read in the context of the above.
> When the Qur'an urges the Muslims to kill the idolaters, it is within
> this historical context i.e. a continuous war on Islam and the breaking
> of treaties with the Muslims. The verses you quoted refer to this short
> period after the Muslims entered Mecca without war and subdued Ta'if
> after minimal resistance.
> The verses are urging the Muslims to purge all those pockets of
> resistance, which remained here and there. Although the verses are
> referring to the combatants as the idolaters but they are not urging
> the Muslims to fight them because of their religious convictions as
> much as they are urging the Muslims to fight them because of their
> insistence on continuing to wage war against the Muslims.
> Having established the historical context in which the verses were
> revealed, we can now look at the verses in question. For example:
> >Sura 9:29 reads: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the
> >latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have
prohibited,
> >nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all
other
> >religions) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the
Christians)
> >/***until they pay the jizya***/ (the tax imposed upon them) with willing
submission
> >and feel themselves subdued. (with humiliation and submission to the
> >government of Islam.)
> The verses here are urging the Muslims to fight anybody who is refusing
> to pay their Jizya, which is a tax levied from citizens of the Muslim
> state who are not Muslim themselves in return for the protection of the
> Muslim army.
> That may sound horrible if you are a prejudiced person. But if you
> think of the fifteen million Muslims in Europe refusing to pay any of
> their taxes and insisting to do so, what do you think would likely
> happen to them? Think of those extremist groups who are supporting
> terrorist activities against Europe not paying some of their taxes how
> would any European government deal with them. Omar Bakri is already
> out, Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada in jail and so on and so forth.
> The following verses are self explanatory:
> >Sura 8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression
and
> >there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but
if
> >they cease verily Allah doth see all that they do.
> Fight them until they stop oppressing Muslims and accept justice. If
> they cease i.e. stop waging war on Muslims, then leave them to Allah
> who will judge them for their deeds.
> >Sura 2:190 Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not
> >transgress limits, for God does not love transgressors.
> Put simply fight back those who are fighting you.
>
> >Sura 2: 217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited
> >Month. Say: Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it
> >in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah to deny
> >Him to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque and drive out its members.
> >Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease
> >fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can.
> >And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief their
> >works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will
> >be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
> >Sura 8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or
> >oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and
> >everywhere; but if they cease verily Allah doth see all that they do.
>
> The verses above are saying that people who continue to persecute
> Muslims and prevent them from performing pilgrimage to Allah's House
> are committing a graver crime than fighting in the Holy precinct around
> the Ka'ba which was prohibited from the time of Abraham. Such people
> will be punished by God on the day of judgment if they do not repent
> and seek forgiveness in due time (i.e. before they die).
>
> >Sura 22: 39 To those against whom war is made permission is given (to
> >fight) because they are wronged and verily Allah is Most powerful for
> >their aid.
> The verse above is giving sanction to the Muslims to defend themselves
> against those waging war on them.
>
> >Sura 2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them and turn them out from
where
> >they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than
> >slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque unless they (first)
fight
> >you there; but if they fight you slay them. Such is the
> >reward of those who suppress faith.
> The verses above are urging the Muslims to fight the Meccans who
> persecuted the Muslims and drove them out of Mecca. It doesn't apply
> to a Muslim who was given asylum by a country like the France, Germany
> or any European state is doing to Muslims.
>
> >Sura 9:35 The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a
> >year) so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth;
> >of them four are sacred; that is the straight usage. So wrong not
> >yourselves therein and fight the pagans all together as they fight you
> >all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain
> >themselves.
> Again the verses above are referring to those who are united in waging
> war against the Muslims, namely Quraish and its allies.
> >Sura 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay
> >the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in
> >wait for them in every stratagem (of war).
> The verses here are simply instructing the Muslims to resume operations
> as soon as the three months accepted by all the Arabs as a period of
> ceasefire. We are still talking about the same state of war imposed by
> the idolaters of Mecca and their allies against the Muslims from the
> moment of its birth.
>
> I am sure you will shrug your shoulders in disbelief saying, it is
> impossible; how can I forget about all my prejudices. What about all
> those books written by Norman Calde Muwta. How can I remove them from
> my head.
> My advice for you is to think about the Coptic Christians in Egypt,
> Tariq Azeez and his Christian people in Iraq, the Churches in Syria,
> turkey etc. If the interpretation of the verses above as you have been
> made to understand, why have their been churches all over the Islamic
> world from before Islam up until today. The Nativity Church is a simple
> example, even if you were one of the most ignorant people in the
> Christian world you would have know of its uninterrupted existence from
> the time of its building.
> I hope you will remember one incident in the history of Islam which
> will make your head swim.
> Some Muslims in the seventh year of the prophets ministry in Mecca, as
> I mentioned above, emigrated to Abyssinia where they were granted
> asylum by King Najashi who was a devout Christian, against a request
> for extradition of the Muslim emigrants, by representatives of Quraish.
> The king listened to the case of the Muslims with great sympathy and
> refused to send the Muslims back to Mecca saying the following to their
> representative:
> "Not for a mountain of Gold will I give them to you Amr"
> He ordered the presents sent to him by Quraish to be returned with
> their delegation. Long after the Muslims returned to Mecca and settled
> in Medina, Muhammad received news of the death of King Najashi. He said
> to the Muslims: "a brother of yours has died today" and he lead the
> Muslims to perform a funeral prayer for the soul of King Najashi.
> Most Muslim scholars assert that the king had embraced Islam. But I
> haven't come across any clear evidence confirming this view.
> Whether he embraced and practiced Islam or whether he died as a
> Christian, Muhammad and the entire Muslim congregation did hold a
> funeral prayer for his soul and called him as a brother.
> Dear Rock I am tired I leave the rest for you to research.
>
> Regards
> RRR
> THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH
>


Oooooh, that makes everything alright then!
So Mohammad was actually a nice guy, who followed the ten commandments?...I
agree that they are historical events, unfortunately too many Muslims want
history to repeat itself.
Let's get this right. Your prophet tortured people, pillaged, and shared the
bounty. Claimed that Allah had three daughters, and confessed to being
possesed by a demon, and all this against people who belived there was one
God, and did their best to follow the commandments of God...Do you follow me
so far?
He was so poor he could only afford 13 wives, and told his people not to
take more than 4 wives.
He advised drinking camel pee and dipping both wings of a fly into water to
make it clean.
Exactly, what was the point of Mohammad?


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