Re: Anglican 'Santa' barred from giving gifts to children at detainee centre

Adam Funk wrote:

On 2009-12-13, Frederick Williams wrote:

Alwyn wrote:

On 13/12/2009 13:42, Frederick Williams wrote:

It is their parents' fault. If the parents went back to where they
belong, they and their children would not need to be locked up.

People all over the world want a better life,

That's true but they should seek one in their own country.

And people who live in Cheshire should seek a better life there
instead of looking for a job in Lancashire, etc. National borders are
historical accidents, results of agression, and just arbitrary
conventions used to manipulate people (especially in combination with
patriotism). They have no real meaning and we humans should grow up.

The border between the USA and Mexico is an excellent example: as
Mexican immigrants correctly point out, much of the USA used to belong
to Mexico but the USA used war and other aggressive methods to move
the border south --- so it does not deserve respect.

and we should not treat as
criminals those who come to this country in search of it. If we go far
enough back, all our ancestors were immigrants.

This claim is often made (including in this newsgroup) but in the past
there have not been floods of them destroying the indigenous peoples'
way of life.

People in many countries are poor because the developed countries are
ripping them off with "globalization": free movement of goods and
money for the benefit of the rich, but no corresponding free movement
of labour for the poor.

Locking children up can damage them for life. I do not see how that
could possibly be ethical.

If illegal immigrants with children weren't locked up it would be a
clear invitation to more of them to come in.

If this policy is meant as a deterrent, it isn't clear that it's
working. People still come.

That's because we treat them too well. If they were rounded up and put
on flights back home without the right to appeal, the message might get
though to their compatriots.

You don't believe in due process as a human right?

I find the matter of rights very problematical. (I'll not go into it
now unless you wish me to.) But if it is a legal right then the law
needs changing. Legal rights are like borders: "just arbitrary
conventions used to manipulate people" if I may quote you.

--
Pigeons were widely suspected of secret intercourse with the
enemy; counter-measures included the use of British birds of
prey to intercept suspicious pigeons in mid-air.
Christopher Andrew, 'Defence of the Realm', Allen Lane


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