Re: Lambeth Conference

loiner2003 <loiner2003@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Tony Gillam wrote:
loiner2003 <loiner2003@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<snip some interesting insights>
To think
that this life alone must and will determine our eternal fate seems
to me to deny the power and grace of God.

I'd be interested in your take on "it is appointed unto men once to
die and then the judgement" then.

I'm sure we could both play the game of fencing with texts. But that
makes assumptions about the nature of the bible which I don't accept
(and which i doubt that you do either). I do not believe that the
Bible is infallible, even in matters of doctrine.

Don't know that I can agree with you there.

I do not believe
that all books, and far less all individual texts, have equal value
or are to be assumed to be correct when quoted on their own. We have
to look at the whole picture including recognising, in my view, that
some texts are simply not compatible with each other without
introducing distortions to make them fit. As I have indicated on
other occasions, some texts imply that only a few will find
salvation; but others suggest very differently. The Bible is a
collection of works presenting differing understandings of God.

So much for a general comment.
As to the specific verse
- have I ever argued that we die more than once? I think not. We die
once, as the verse says.
- have I ever argued that the judgement takes place *before* our
death? I think not. The judgement comes *after* our death, as the
verse says. So I have no problem at all with the verse!

What the verse does not say is that the judgement comes immediately
after our death or that it is based on our spiritual condition at the
moment of death, or even on a balance of how our life has been lived
throughout. That idea is something some people read into the
Scripture.
What the verse does not say is that the judgement, made supposedly
after our one death, is final and determinative for all eternity; why
should the judgement not be, for example, that we need a spell in
purgatory before being ready to enter the eternal presence of God?

Some Christians believe that, on death, we sleep a long (or timeless)
sleep until a final resurrection. Why should "after that" have to mean
immediately? And what does "immediately" or "later" mean in the
context of a God who is outside of time?

So, i'd be interested to learn why you think, as apparently you do,
that throwing that text at me should cause me to change my
understanding of the infinite mercy and grace of God, which continues
after our death as before it, and which has no end.

Not "change your understanding" but I was wondering how that verse
fitted in with your universalist position. You've raised some
interesting points which I shall ponder further.
--
Tony Gillam
tony.gillam@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.bookourvilla.co.uk/spain
Sun, sand and sangria
.

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