Re: Phil's Test for the gospel standard of righteous judgement

"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist UK.RC" <"broadband [remove]
1234"@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
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"Phil Saunders" <philip.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist UK.RC" <"broadband [remove]
1234"@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
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"Phil Saunders" <philip.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
And some command that others do things that they never did or taught
when
they were in a position to do so. Eh Jeff?

We should onwardly increase both in knowledge and understanding, Phil.

Indeed but how convenient for you that you came to this enlightenment
when you didnt have to practice it.

Nothing to do with convenience, for it was practised....to the extent
that the women were forbidden to speak or preach during all the
religious services and lectures, they also covered their heads when
praying to God, and even when grace was said before meals.

Now! do you practise these Apostolic instructions in your own household
of faith?

They are your instructions Jeff. They are not apostolic ones.

Oh! but they are indeed....{;o;} women are forbidden to speak and preach
in the churches whether you are capable of grasping it or not.

No Jeff, much though you like to trawl through hoping to find a version that
suits your doctrine.

"As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain SILENT
in the churches. They are not allowed to SPEAK, but must be in submission,
as the Law says. 35 If they want to enquire about something, they should
ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to SPEAK
in the church.
36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it
has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted,
let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.
38 If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored." 1 Cor 14:33-38 (ANIV)

Sounds reasonable to me, Phil.

So then here are the questions raised by that text.

What does "remain silent" mean? and what did it mean to the Apostles?

I suggest we let scripture answer that. I refer you to the book of Acts
(amazingly you read the whole bible every year but fail to understand what
it is telling you).

Here is the relevant passage

11 And when Peter was come to himself, he said, Now I know of a surety, that
the LORD hath sent his angel, and hath delivered me out of the hand of
Herod, and from all the expectation of the people of the Jews.
12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the
mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together
praying.
13 And as Peter knocked at the door of the gate, a damsel came to hearken,
named Rhoda.
14 And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness,
but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate.
15 And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it
was even so. Then said they, It is his angel.
16 But Peter continued knocking: and when they had opened the door, and saw
him, they were astonished.
17 But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared
unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Go
shew these things unto James, and to the brethren. And he departed, and went
into another place.

If the women were to remain silent with no sounds made at all it seems odd
that Peter, the 1st Century Apostle, seemed unaware of it. Indeed it appears
that nobody else present knew it either.

It's even worse for the disobedient reprobate from the New Century
Version.

" 37 Those who think they are prophets or spiritual persons should
understand that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.
38 Those who ignore this will be ignored by God."
So God will ignore all those, [including you] who refuse to acknowledge
this command for women to be silent in the church assemblies.

So now we have another question. Did God therefore ignore Peter and the rest
of those gathered in the house to which he went? The scriptures indicate
that God did not, in gact, do so.

So we see now quite clearly from these passages, that not only did your
statement contain words of heresy but also a falsehood by pretending they
are my instructions and not Apostolic ones. No wonder your conscience is
shown to keep nudging and pricking you over the words 'lie' and 'deceit'.
I fully understand why, now Phil.

I raised the issue of lying because you claimed that what I had said, which
was about things I had done, was not true. You, in effect, called me a liar.
Your lack of integrity is well known, I don't have that same issue. That you
are seeking to imply that my offense at your false maligning is because I am
insecure just shows that what integrity you had left is in such a small
amount that you can no longer manage an honest response.

As I have shown, from scripture, your understanding does not accord with the
actions of a 1st Century Apostle thereby demonstrating your error.

What does "elect" mean?
When Jesus said that He would deliver up all those the Father brought to
Him because that was what the Father willed was Jesus mistaken?
You say that we must follow the commands of Jesus but you dont know what
Jesus command is. Here let me refresh your memory.

14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. OK so far
Jeff?
15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what
his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have
heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Sill keeping up?

16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye
should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that
whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Still with me?

17These things I command you, that ye love one another. There ya
go!!!!!

Yes! and there you go once again.....neglecting...... to see Jesus was
primarily addressing his immediate Disciples at this time. "25 These
things have I spoken unto you, being yet PRESENT with you. 26 But the
Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto YOU." John 14:25-26 (KJV)

I note your evasion and I also note that it is because the honest answers
prove that your doctrine is false that you do so evade.

I am constantly amazed that those who attack others for any prevarication
run and hide so quickly when their pet heresies are challenged.

But back to you. Did you, or did you not, exercise all of your current
doctrine with regards to women when there was a woman, your wife, to whom
you might have to direct *all* of your doctrine?

Oh! dear, looks like you failed to keep up with my last post once again.
"women were forbidden to speak or preach during all the religious
services and lectures, [see Apostolic instructions above, Phil] they also
covered their heads when praying to God,
and even when grace was said before meals. Do your women cover their heads
when praying to Almighty God?

Women do not pray in my house. I don't have "women" I have a wife, singular.
She does not pray without her head being covered as scripture says. I have
answered this question before. I was also, before you drone on with
repeating others that I have also answered, been baptised by immersion after
cming to faith in Jesus. The same is true for my wife.

I note your evasion and also your unsupported insertion "even when grace was
said before meals". There is no scripture that requires a woman to cover her
head when someone else is praying. If you teach that there is perhaps you
could reference it here...

Once again your false doctrine is exposed.

I hope I am wrong, but have a perception that they don't.

Of course you are wrong Jeff. You persist in being wrong because you rather
stupidly fail to listen to answers that you are given and assume that you
know better.

You poison the truth with your additions and false assumptions on scripture.

Phil
.

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