Re: False hope of salvation by infant baptism. was [ "Ecclesial Communion, Conciliarity and Authority"]

"David Aldred" <nr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist UK.RC wrote:

"David Aldred" <nr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Gareth McCaughan wrote:

David Aldred wrote:

[Jeff Hickling:]
And language skills, along with other skills of communication, if one
is
blind or deaf are required today for people to understand Christ's
message for them to be saved.

[David:]
So you believe that God will always reject someone (of whatever age -
I
wasn't specifying babies in the conditions) who cannot manage
language.
Finally you are clear on this.

I think (see other things he's posted in this thread) he's
actually saying something a little different: that in such
cases there's no "someone" really there. So he agrees with
famous atheist Daniel Dennett about that :-).

And other well know atheists, like Barbara Smoker (who used this as her
basis for arguing for 'abortion' up to 2 years of age).

Perhaps Jeff would like to comment on that: if an infant isn't
sufficiently
human to be a child of God,

It's a matter of being of an age to be responsible for your own decisions
when baptism into Christ is concerned.
Babies being a few weeks old will never come into that category.

OK, Jeff, there's no need to go on proving how unpleasant your twisted
theology is.

<Grins>
Ah! because it shows the RC's are sinfully wrong in forcing Infant Rhantism
upon unsuspecting babies, and then worst of all, denying them a real baptism
when they do finally believe in Christ.
Now that does show to all...... just "how unpleasant your twisted theology
is."

and is equivalent to a beast (as you seem to be
saying, Jeff),

Only in the sense as such are not responsible for any sins committed, so
they die like the guiltless beasts and are no more.

Only? So how, spiritually, do they differ from the beasts,

They don't.......they are spiritual dead, just as the 'innocent' beasts, so
they die and cease to exist.

do you support infanticide? And if not, why not?

All aiding and abetting of killing or taking of human life is wrong,

So what do you mean by 'human life'?

Human 'life'.

You seem to be denying babies a
fundamental part of humanity - the ability to become children of God

They can, once they become responsible thinking humans.
Tiny babies aren't, thus forcing them to be 'christened' is both obnoxious
and unscriptural, as the procedure is not endorsed by any Apostolic
practises.

- so
how can you also claim their lives as human?

Because they are.....even the wicked are 'human', but it still won't save
them, unless they first BELIEVE in Christ, and are THEN baptised by water
immersion.
Which is something you should by now be seriously considering yourself,
David.

so
how the RCC can justify welcoming the late prime minister into their
fellowship, just shows yet again, the utter contempt they have for Christ
and his express commands.

Perhaps you could let us all into the knowledge you have of the
discussions
which took place between Blair and his confessor - you must have such
knowledge to ne so sure that he did not repent of his actions (as he would
have to) before becoming a member of the RCC.

Hum!
Well, when he was personally interviewed the other week, as I recall, he had
no regrets on sending the Armed forces to Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, or maybe
you know something from the Catholic press that I don't.

Alternatively we could ask Mark to consider whether this constitutes
personal abuse, since you are implying incompetence on the part of that
confessor and deliberate dishonesty on the part of Blair.

We shall soon see the real truth, when next he is asked if he regrets or has
repented at sending troops to Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc.

Jeff...
"16 Take heed unto thyself, and the doctrines; continue in them: for in
doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
1 Tim 4:16 (KJV)
.

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