Re: "I am both Muslim and Christian" Rev Ann Holmes Redding

On 4 Dec, 06:56, "Kendall K. Down" <webmas...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In message <2b4ee2f9-37aa-4559-b961-8fc4973fb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
nobody <whena...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The above website is created by Jews as far as I know, and they state
the word "Eloha".

Of course there is a singular form of "Elohim"; it just so happens that it
is not used in the passage under discussion.

So tell me which man god came to Mary and had a child through her?
Is it not vile when you say god begot a son through mary.

Why? You believe the same thing, though you use different words.


We don't use the word begot, or begotten, because the quran teaches
not to. And words carry meanings, just because you use it for a
different reason, the literal meaning of the word could put you in
trouble... and you know if I keep persisting on the word begotten you
will not be able to provide a proper logical answer which will explain
why just this word only this word had to be used.

This is because the word begotten literally relates to produce a child
through a sexual relation; and by using this word you arming all
people who believe Jesus was a an imposter.

Like I have previously stated the mosque I go to they don't talk about
other religion, just Islamic teachings in all sermons. Currently the
Mosque I normally go to they speak Bengali and I haven't a clue what
they talk about, although some words sound similar to Urdu and I
presume they have the same meaning in both languages.

Which sounds as sensible as Catholics going to a church where the mass is in
Latin.


Well, I don't know if you remember me stating on a topic a few months
ago; I was moving away from home as I found a year placement about
hundred miles away from home, I am living there now and the closest
mosque I know of, they speak in Bengali. Besides I go to pray to god
not to the Bengali speaking imam.

In short, put up or shut up. You claimed that "begotten" refers to sex
between animals. Provide evidence or admit that you were wrong.
Begotten as defined by - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

All right, I'll give you slight credit for that.

The English word "begotten" is the translation of a Greek term which, as I
remark below,
As you have already been told, "begotten" is the English translation of a
Greek word that was chosen explicitly to both acknowledge that God was the
father of Jesus and to reject any suggestion that sexual relations were
involved.

Using a modern dictionary to discover the meaning of a theological term is
not entirely sensible, though I can see that you might, innocently but
ignorantly, make that mistake.


so you are telling me this meaning has evolved? If so I agree...

but I would say it always related to the an sexual act.

It is enshrined in the Christian creed that Jesus was "begotten, not made",
meaning that the pre-existing Jesus was born of Mary but was not actually
created in her womb.

In all honesty in this I was just putting forward the idea why use
such a word which will throw a thousand questions to by someone who
does not believe in Jesus through the Islamic prospective or Christian
prospective.

I have explained why that word was used. Do you want the explanation again?
Just go up 19 lines and read it again.

And if I remember correctly the word begotten was taken out of the
bible in a later translation as a fabrication, in the 1st version of
the Revised Standard Version, but later because people protested they
put it back in.

I don't know whether your statement is correct, but if it is, it would be
precisely because of the sort of confusion you have shown. Translations are
an attempt to render the Bible in contemporary language and because most
people these days don't understand the theological background to the word
"begotten", the translators tried to give the same meaning but in different
words. The protests were because those who are informed about the matter
realise that the word "begotten" has a very precise meaning in theological
terms and they wished to avoid any idea that Jesus' was conceived naturally,
by intercourse between a human male and Mary.


Well there is a difference between version and translation. In a
translation you have a choice of words but when you decide to take out
complete verses that is no longer a translation.

Below are verses compleltley removed from the bible in the New
International Bible.

Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed.
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed "For the Son of man is come to
save that which was lost."

Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed "Woe unto you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a
pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater
damnation."

Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed
"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven
forgive your trespasses."

Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed
"And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered
with the transgressors."

Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- There is a line separating the last 12
verses of Mark from the main text. Right under the line it says: [The
two most reliable early manuscripts do not have Mark 16:9-20] (NIV,
1978 ed.) The Jehovah's Witness "Bible" also places the last 12 verses
of Mark as an appendix of sorts.

Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other
left."

Acts 8:37 -- COMPLETELY removed

Acts 15:34 -- COMPLETELY removed
"Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."

Acts 24:7 -- COMPLETELY removed

"But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence
took him away out of our hands,"

Acts 28:29 -- COMPLETELY removed
"And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great
reasoning among themselves."

Romans 16:24 -- COMPLETELY removed
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."


This is not a choice of words. If it is god's word then who gave them
the authority to take delete his word. I can only think that such
verses where not in the script to begin with... if so who put them in,
from the beginning.
.

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