Re: Do you believe in grace Jeff? Yes! but it has it's conditions!

"Phil Saunders" <philip.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist UK.RC"
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"Phil Saunders" <philip.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist UK.RC"
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"Phil Saunders" <philip.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

<sniped for brevity>

Did Jesus lie Jeff?
Was Jesus wrong Jeff?

Naw!.....not at all. {;o;}

So instead of answering questions with straightforward answers you add
your opinions and assumptions as if they were the truth.

I am being 'straight-forward' but some questions cannot be answered
properly and thoroughly by a simple yes or no. Just as Jesus and Paul
often had to go into a detailed response to get the whole answer properly
understood.

Some questions can be answered simply.

Just because Jesus did not mention to every person he spoke to about
getting baptised, does not mean the rite of being baptised for them had
been annulled.

thats called begging the question

You cant deal with these scriptures Jeff because they say what you
cannot accept.

It's the strange manic approach in your slanted questions which is the
difficulty and hard to accept, not me quoting the applicable scripture
to back up what I state.

lol oh the irony

It seems to me, Phil, you need to take a more in-depth look at things and
not just quote a passage then demand why other instructions were not
included, and as they aren't, it means they are not really valid or
necessary to be obeyed, it just isn't coherent.

istm that you lack the courage to say what you really think

<friendly smile to Phil>
I have dealt with them, and I find them all most acceptable once a
rational
and Scriptural exegesis is properly conducted.

You mean you find that if you add your personal theology to each
scripture, if you make assumptions that each one really means something
else then it all fits, well duh!

It seems you are manifesting a rather stunted ability to "Rightly
dividing the word of truth."

It only seems that way to you Jeff,

So in these 3 cases you either think Jesus was wrong or Jesus lied.
which was it Jeff?

None! Phil.

Oh yes Jeff. You really think that Jesus was wrong because in none of
those cases did Jesus give an answer consistent with your theology.

If you could remove the veil from over the eyes, and open your mind to
what Jesus did say in the passages I have quoted of his, you would see it
quite clearly.

oh the irony

Queue some serious handwaving and smokescreening from Jeff

Jeff.....<seriously waving back> {;o;}

Honesty would be a good place to start Jeff. Go to it and answer again,

Frankly Phil, you are just not making sense....and acting in a manner
which
could be described as being rather childishly pedantic.

It could be described that way by you but then you need to attack me
because you cant cope with the argument.

For the facts still remain, Jesus did say or other Scriptures infer what
I stated, although not in one particular passage, but when such are
condensed together, they are a true
account of his words, and other Apostles opinions, like it or not.

The facts cant remain that because they never were that.

Thus today, belief, baptism, and obedience to Christ are necessary to be
accepted in God's kingdom.
And that is that! {;o;}

Thankyou Jeff. A clear statement that salvation is not by grace.

You prove my points admirably....just as when Peter commented on Paul's own
enemies responses.
2 Peter 3:" Some of his comments are not easy to understand, and there are
people who are deliberately stupid, and always demand some unusual
interpretation--they have twisted his letters around to mean something quite
different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of the
Scripture--and the result is disaster for them."
.

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