Re: URGENT - Please take action now.

In message <4474d9d5$0$24995$834e42db@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Simon Robinson <email@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
Michael J Davis wrote:

My third objection (also slippery slope case) is that our National Health service - although good - is struggling. Right now some are suggesting that smokers may not be entitled to the same level of care as others, ditto obese,

Well it doesn't seem to implausible to suggest that, given a choice between treating someone who is the victim of circumstances or a disease beyond their control, and treating someone who knowingly brought about his condition through his/her own actions (and may well do the same again after being treated), then with limited resources, the first person is the one who should be given the treatment, for a variety of reasons, some moral, some practical. I honestly can't see that that is hugely connected with a slippery slope from voluntary to involuntary euthanasia. I don't see any reason to believe that the people who believe smokers should have a lower priority in care for smoking-related illnesses are particularly going to be the same people as those arguing for some kind of euthanasia as the arguments are for the most part different. Yes, in your following paragraph you described a possible connection - but the connection you described seems to me to be plausible only in the sense that you could probably find a way to connect almost anything with anything else.

I'll reply to this, Simon (welcome back!) because it was a specific reply to Q. Ignoring the following paragraph (which was directly connected), the above is part of the real dilemma we do have. How much care should we (a. society, b. Christians) take of people who are afflicted by their own actions?

Would that mean that mountain climbers who are injured should not be given a high priority, or that people injured in cars that were travelling above the speed limit are not treated (or perhaps just the passengers, not the driver)? And so on. The whole of this discussion is about the type of society we want, isn't it?

Last point - I have used the Abortion Act as an example of unintended consequences; alongside that, I'd like to put the drink-drive laws as an example of intended consequences - where the setting out of the law *does* have an influence on society's attitude. Today the majority do regard driving while 'over the limit' as somewhat reprehensible. That is how laws *do* change our perceptions. (And why my slippery slope argument *does* have some validity - IMHO, of course!)

You may not be fully aware of the Harold Shipman case - a Doctor in Manchester who is believed to have killed hundreds of his patients in the last twenty years. - Convicted and sentenced about three years ago, he managed to commit suicide in prison. That has done little to inspire confidence in the medical profession. Those who should have recognised patterns of mortality in his practice, singularly failed to do so.

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see the relevence to the Joffe bill of the existence of a person who happened to be a doctor and who chose to murder lots of other people. Yes, murderers and mass-murderers and all sorts of other bad people exist. So what? How does the existence of such people provide a justification for denying a patient with a terminal illness and in great suffering from having the end and the relief from their suffering that they wish?

Not really - I was explaining to Q why the UK medical profession has reason for being concerned about the public image/reputation as being ministers of health rather than of death.

Mike

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--
Michael J Davis
http://www.trustsof.demon.co.uk
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For this is what the Lord has said to me,
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him report what he sees." Isa 21:6
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