Re: the eternal nature of the Sabbath

<marcandmia@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1141394699.411942.159000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
philip.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

I didn't have time to give a proper reply before so I will try to give
a fuller answer.

The sabbath predates the old covenant as it was made holy on the
seventh day of creation before the fall.

This is just not the case. The seventh day observance (as part of any
covenant at all) does not predate the old covenant (so called).

when did the old covenant begin?

Which old covenant? If you refer to the Mosaic covenant then it began when
it was given to Moses.

when was the seventh day made holy?

At the same time as it was made.

All the Ten Commandments were valid before the old covenant and are
part of God's eternal law of love.

Likewise this is just a nonsense. The Ten Commandments dont predate
anything.

Can you name any of the other 10cs that were not valid before Moses
excluding the Sabbath as we are discussing that?

None of the 10cs were valid as part of a covenant before they were they were
given to Moses. That covenant, like all those before it, had benefits and
requirements. It had specific requirements that are not part of the
covenants that pre-date it.

If, as you suggest, the commandment not to murder was part of previous
covenants then why were those under the covenant not told so?

The Sabbath is an eternal institution as shown by Isa 66, as it will be
observed in the new earth.

It cant be an eternal institution because it had a beginning. As for
what Isaiah had to say supporting you it does the exact opposite

why does somthing which has a beginning not be eternal if it continues
for eternity.

It can be without end if it has no end. It is eternal if it has no beginning
or end.

The new earth will be eternal even though God will not make it until
after Jesus returns. The angels had a beginning yet are immortal beings
under God.

22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before
me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all
mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

perhaps its rendition in "The Message" will make it clearer to you

23Month after month and week by week, everyone will come to worship
me," GOD says.

Most translations don't say this.

Oh yes they do

NASB 23"And it shall be from (BG)new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to (BH)bow down before Me," says the LORD.

Amplified

23And it shall be that from one New Moon to another New Moon and from one
Sabbath to another Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me, says
the Lord.

New living

23"All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to
month.

ESV

23From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares the LORD.

I can only find one that doesnt talk about from one moon to another and one
sabbath to another. Note not ON but from and to

Even if it is correct, the weekly
cycle in heaven would imply the Sabbath too.
Why would we observe a seven day cycle if not to keep the Sabbath?

Duh!!!

The weekly cycle implies every day of the week!!! We observe a 7 day week
because that is what God gave us. Why do Angels have wings?

That isnt sabbath observance but constant worship. You need to stop
assuming that when the word translated "sabbath" appears somewhere in
scripture that it refers to something that "sabbath" only meant to the
Jews whilst under the Mosaic covenant.

I don't agree that there will be constant worship.

Oh?

Rev 7
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could
number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before
the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in
their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God
which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11And all the angels stood
round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell
before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12Saying, Amen:
Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power,
and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13And one of the elders
answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes?
and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said
to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed
their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are
they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple:
and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Pay special attention to the last verse.


In Eden Adam and Eve
were given the task of looking after the Garden. Isaiah speaks of
planting, building things, other earthly activities. But the difference
will be that there is no sin, suffering or death. So we will still need
a Sabbath once a week.

Apparently you think that the scriptures are in error then?

Will they worship in a temple do you think on the Sabath?

22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are
the temple of it

Your misunderstanding in this area appears to be twofold. Firstly you
dont appear able to understand what the scriptures say (perhaps you are
using a version in which the language differs from your usage) and
secondly you appear to be adhering to an agenda outside of scripture
(that of the SDA which, in itself, is based upon the non scriptural
teachings of Ellen White among others).

I didn't being Ellen White into this, there is no need, the scripture
is plain, God rested on the seventh day, blessed it and made it holy on
the seventh day of Creation.
I'm only following what God made holy.

You brought her teaching in and ignore the scriptures (see above) or deny
the truth of them in order to make the scripture say what you want.

Perhaps if you were to put aside your theological bias for a brief
period you might gain a proper understanding of the scriptures. Until
what the scriptures say is more important than the doctrines you
support you will always be caught in the strange predicament in which
you currently find yourself, that is that you expend a great deal of
energy on something about which the NT addressed to the gentiles is
largely silent.

There was no need to address it because all the Gentiles were keeping
the Sabbath in those early days.

And yet they addressed offerings, sacrifices and the like but omitted the
all important Sabbath? Nonsense

It even causes you to judge other Christians concerning the sabbath
when the scriptures expressly forbid you to do so. Indeed the
scriptures command me not to let you do so.


I believe those Scriptures are talking of feast days, ceremonial
Sabbaths which have been abolished, not the weekly Sabbath which goes
back to Creation.

Thats handy for you, a belief that allows you to do something the scriptures
flatly condemn.

Are there any other such handy beliefs of the SDA which we should be aware
(say one that exempts you from not murdering etc?)

Phil
.

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