Re: Rebuking those who say they are Christians

Gareth McCaughan wrote:

"Diana" wrote:

The actual outlay for healthcare for illegal aliens is a little more difficult to quantify. You see, over 45% of births in California last year were to hispanic women. These children are US citizens. One US citizen in the household means that nobody in that household is counted as 'illegal' in terms of the budget. 


Er, is that actually true? Are you saying, e.g., that if an
illegal immigrant whose child is a US citizen is caught and
sent to jail, then s/he wouldn't be counted as an illegal
immigrant? That seems hard to believe.


Sort of. Anyone born in USA is a citizen of USA. Pregnant women illegally cross the border for the purpose of having a child born in USA. That baby is referred to as an "anchor baby." When the baby turns 18 years, s/he can bring in the entire extended family as legal immigrants.

Meanwhile, the mother and other family members are illegal, but often they are more or less unofficially allowed to stay because sending the mother home is the same as kicking out a citizen (the baby). The judge often decides it's in the baby's best interests to keep the family out of jail.

One by one it's a heartwarming decision. But thousand by thousand, there are huge economic and social consequences.

To me a significant difference between the Mexican illegals and most other groups of immigrants legal or not, is in whether the immigrant has chosen a new home to become part of the community and care about the wellbeing and future of the community, or whether the purpose is to exploit the community and send its value elsewhere.

Someone who takes a job - at any wage - and spends it in the community and saves money to build a house or business in that community, enhances that community. Someone who takes a job for the purpose of sending money away and saves money to build a house and business away, depletes the community.


employers don't want to hire Americans for these positions... benefits which they do not have to pay undocumented workers. That saves employers a LOT. The difference to the worker isn't that great, but to the companies that employ them? Oh, yeah. 


The solution to that, it seems to me, is to go after the businesses,
not to go after the immigrants.


There are laws against hiring illegals. A business has to fill out form I-9 after seeing proof of citizenship or legal residence of the job applicant. Either business are routinely lying on the forms, or the law is not enforced.

Most likely not enforced. Bush is pro-business in the sense of anything that makes more money for the owners is good regardless of other consequences; many Republicans are opposed to having any wage minimum; businesses want to hire people for less than minimum wage (a wage already so low full time workers can collect public assistance).

These forces work together to allow or even encourage illegals to come take jobs. Workers were trucked across the border by Halliburton to take the jobs in New Orleans after the flood, because Bush suspended the wage laws and the anti-illegal worker laws for that area.


that her welfare check is three times my monthly income. 

(She gets a regular welfare payment despite being an undocumented
immigrant? How does that happen, then?)

Lots of ways, including maybe she has a baby who was born in USA so the welfare is paid on behalf of the baby.

"Welfare" using the word generally to refer to all support programs, includes things like rent, food, job training, unlimited medical care, day care - free or reduced. Not unusual for people to lose economically when they get off welfare and take a full time minimum wage job.

For example, taking a job means losing the welfare medical care, but most jobs - I think it's now most jobs, if not it's getting close - do not have medical benefits. Losing medical coverage is a huge economic loss if anyone in the family has medical problems, and poor people often have diet or lifestyle related problems such as diabetes.


what you need is a UK-style national health service, which offers
free care of a decent quality to everyone, even people the government
thinks have plenty of money.

But, hey, how would the big for-profit medical providers make big bucks?

Corporate income is what matters in USA, not health. What are you, a socialist communist pinko fellow traveler unpatriotic anti-capitalist, you think health matters more than corporate profits? :)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: [OT] Perfect time for a roundup
    ... send the legals one way and the illegals south? ... We The People, The Citizens of the United States of America, need to ... "Pro Immigrant Rallies" by people who are trying to influence public ...
    (rec.crafts.metalworking)
  • Re: Tan Nguyen, Another Republican of course, Threatened Hispanic Voters with Jail if they Vote!!
    ... Only CITIZENS can vote!!!!!! ... are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime that could result ... EVERY CALIFORNIA VOTER IS ASSIGNED A SOCALLED "HAVA-ID". ... SO TO THOSE OF YOU ILLEGALS... ...
    (alt.politics.bush)
  • Re: Tan Nguyen, Another Republican of course, Threatened Hispanic Voters with Jail if they Vote!!
    ... Thursday called on Nguyen to withdraw from his race against Rep. ... are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime that could result ... They became citizens of the US. ... SO TO THOSE OF YOU ILLEGALS... ...
    (alt.politics.bush)
  • First step in immigration reform
    ... immigation reform is that there is no "illegal alien" identity. ... The pro-immigrants refer to all illegals as hard-working honest folks ... each immigrant as an individual. ... American community, and economy, and ejecting them would be a ludicrous ...
    (alt.politics)
  • Re: OT: "immigration"
    ... The biggest problem I have with illegals is that they are illegal. ... I know that people break the law, but it is the same law for everyone and if you break the law you are in trouble. ... I know we can't "send them home" many of them have children born here who are citizens. ... EVERYONE EVERYWHERE is an immigrant or descended from immigrants. ...
    (rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs)