Re: Atheists? Do you believe in them?

Me
>>Even a base "concept" that
>>could reasonably be defined as the final arbitration point
>>would help, and in that respect I have heard it asserted
>>that "survival of the species" fits that bill, but for me that
>>causes more problems than it solves.


William
> It's a very simplistic assertion.

Umm...how is it a simplistic assertion to say; *for me* something causes more problems than it solves? I'd happily go into a full explanation of why "survival of the species" as a base concept for morality causes more problems *for me* than it solves but that would take a lot of time and effort and hardly seems worth it given that you don't seem to adhere to the view any more than I do?


Me
>>>>2)If disregarding it were to make you a better
>>>>functioning and happier human being, how on earth
>>>>could it be a "sin against the self"


William
>>> Because morality and functionality do not always go
>>>together.

Me
>>Yes well I certainly agree with that, but I would really like
>>to know then, in the absence of God(s) how do you define
>>what is moral?


William
> Defining what is moral does not produce the subjective sense of what
> is moral. If infanticide was defined (by God or anyone else) as
> morally right would you suddenly feel it was right or would you have
> some deep down sense that it was morally wrong and that God would
> never tell you it was morally right? What is *your* final arbiter?

Yes I agree that this is a problem.
So far I can honestly say that in my reading of scripture (and you should know at this point that I am by no means a literalist) and within my own experience of God there is nothing that S/He would demand that seriously contradicts my inate "moral sense" other than, I suspect that I am far more *liberal* than I would otherwise have been without an understanding of the Cross.


> Note that all kinds of atrocities have been carried out because it was
> believed God had so directed.

Yes yes and Stalin and Mao were atheists blah blah blah.
Personally I have no more time for the argument "Atheists did (x) atrocity therefore beware of Atheism" than I do for "Religious people did (y) atrocity therefor etc etc". In my reading of history atrocities are invariably carried out by "fundamentalists" whether religious or not. So "Beware of Fundamentalism"! :-)

Peter R
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