Re: Victory for green lanes

Roger wrote:

I see you conveniently swept aside my comment above "speed limits
introduced as fuel saving measures". Incidentally the national speed
limit on single carriageway roads is a remnant of the fuel crisis
limits.

Because the fuel saving measures are long in the past and there's been a
great deal of worldwide opportunity to revise them, as has been done in
many places (obviously the US 55 limit). Yet it is still the case that
speed limits don't change typically /that/ much as you cross borders,
not even borders where Ms. castle had any hand in the limits.

No I just blame her for the imposition of the 70 limit and the spin
needed to justify it.

If she hadn't done it it's very likely someone else would have.
Germany's unrestricted autobahns are an exception, not a rule (and not
even a universal exception within Germany).

Eh? I was saying that more cars make people more aware of cars and less
likely to have accidents with them.

No you were saying that there were so few cars around that unfamiliarity
with cars was the reason why accident rates rose year on year as traffic
increased.

If I have lower numbers than the critical mass needed for people to be
generally aware then I won't have a safety in numbers effect. But if I
have more than none then more accidents will happen in that non-critical
mass population.

And back to the wiki, "Traffic
engineers observe that the majority of drivers drive in a safe and
reasonable manner, as demonstrated by consistently favorable driving
records.

Now who was it who said?:

"But as the record shows, you won't get them them acting responsibly by
assuming they'll sensibly limit themselves."

Deary me Roger, I freely admitted that /by and large/ motorists don't
have many accidents considering their numbers today. But that still
leaves room for 3000+ deaths on the UK's roads every year. That may be
a small number for several million motorists, but it's still quite a lot
of people dying.

Which is why the 85 percentile limit makes some sort of sense and why a
good many countries have minimum limits as well as maximum limits. Here
in the UK the notion that a slow driver is a safe driver is king and
although there is legislation on the books for minimum limits I don't
think there are any. I certainly have never seen a minimum limit.

So the recent case of the woman punished for very low speeds on a
motorway, which made the national press but which didn't attract any
obvious criticism of the punishers as opposed to the punished, passed
you by? You seem to have assumed that because overtly fast drivers are
criticised then overtly slow ones must be praised, but IME that is not
the case. When learning to drive I was certainly instructed it was my
duty not to hold up traffic unnecessarily, which doesn't fit with your
thesis.

The wiki also makes the point that drivers tend to ignore inappropriate
limits. The motorway limit may be below the 50 percentile mark
regardless of the limit and certainly would be if there was a way of
demonstrating what speeds drivers would drive at if not limited by law
to 70.

With the clear example being the 55 limit in the US, brought in to save
fuel. 70 is significantly greater, and driving along speed-cameraless
sections of 70 limit around here at about 70 I overtake a few and am
overtaken by a few, but most people trundle along at around the limit
plus or minus a bit, suggesting they're actually okay with it.
70 mph isn't really slow, it's not out of line with what you see in
other, not entirely dissimilar countries.

I didn't say "accidents", I said "casualties". Not nearly so many
casualties at lower speeds.

Less severe injuries but even lower speed crashes (IIRC 95% at 45 mph or
below) result in casualties. And in any event dv/dt is the significant
factor, not v per se.

Oh, that's all right then. I guess large trees are really good at
stringing out deceleration...

IIRC modern road design eschews dead straight roads as they do not
provide enough stimulus even for the wide awake driver at legal speeds.

You are apparently assuming that any road which isn't particularly
twisty must be "dead straight". There are very few "dead straight"
roads around here.

Have I said that all speed limits need to be lower? Have I said none
should ever be raised?

You have been extolling the virtues of driving below limits and implying
that those who drive faster are irresponsible idiots. Even just above
you are maintaining that slower is safer.

If you are in a crash with a roadside object then that /is/ the case.
What I said concerning driving over the limits in this thread is that
you'll be liable for a speeding fine, and if you don't want one of those
then don't drive over the limits, and that it's actually not that hard
to do that.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Victory for green lanes
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