Re: arthritis... bummer!

Mike Clark wrote:
snipped and replies in-line
In message <MDBxj.9479$Z_2.8252@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
reverse-ekralc_j@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Andy Leighton wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:56:54 GMT, reverse-ekralc_j@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<reverse-ekralc_j@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
on walks up to about 5-6 miles again. My point really is that dogs,
AFAIK, aren't susceptible to the placebo effect.

This isn't true. There is quite a discernible placebo effect for pets.
Can you point me to any sources that I
could read up on please ? I find this concept intriguing

John
You could try

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/1690S
I'd already seen that but thanks anyway. I was really thinking about the
placebo effect on the dog, not the owner or vet.

"A Placebo-controlled double-blind study on the effect of netraceuticals
(Chondroitin Sulfate and Mussel Extract) in dogs with joint disease as
perceived by their owners"

Which is relevant to your original post because it demonstrates little
evidence that the therapy you recommended is effective. Essentially it
makes the point that in order to do a veterinary trial on pet dogs you
need to also blind the study for the owners and the vets because they
are the ones who give the treatment and also who make the assessment as
to whether or not the dog is getting better!

In my case I saw the T.V ads where the old dog suddenly started running
ahead of the young dog and remember saying to my wife "yeah, right, still
we could try it, it might work" so rather than being "blind" I was
sceptical to the point that I expected little if any improvement.

More importantly though, a number of dog walking acquaintances who had not
been told that I was giving him the product observed the improvement to the
extent that they spontaneously commented on his improved mobility. Most of
these people I have known for years but only bump into occasionally, those
that I hadn't seen for a while saw the change and considered it dramatic
while I didn't notice the improvement quite so much as it was gradual but
progressive.
I don't think you can get more "blind" than that.

Also in the trial above it was reported that in all groups (i.e. placebo
and treated groups) a small proportion of owners reported dramatic
improvements in their dogs condition.
I would certainly have been one of those owners, my dog improved
dramatically - from walking a few yards and sitting down looking miserable
and on some occasions having to be carried back to the car (not easy with a
lab), I now very often follow him when we walk and even have to quicken my
pace sometimes.
It is suggested that this may have
been due to coincidence of onset of treatment with a spontaneous
improvement.
This I can accept but only to a point. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I
too suffer from arthritis. I am fortunate in that mine is currently in
remission, however this remission only causes my pain to be reduced, it
does not improve the flexibility or mobility of my back.


John

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Study Casts Doubt on Homeopathy
    ... > placebo effect is a concern when animals are involved. ... you will rate your dog as feeling better. ... Ask any vet how many basically healthy animals he or she has ... The kids' scores ...
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  • Re: arthritis... bummer!
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    (uk.rec.walking)
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