Re: i do wonder what it looks like from the outside...

On 2 May, 01:32, Paul Harris <nos...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In message
<477cde36-6980-470c-b2f4-cbe7ab0b5...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, GAGS
<gags...@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes>On 30 Apr, 17:32, "Ewan Scott" <ewansc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
snip

We've seen them all before, with knobs on, but increasingly if the child is
not pampered and returned in pristine condition we face complaints.  Time ,
I think for the disclaimer about cuts and bruises.

Ah, but don't forget you can't disclaim responsibility and/or
negligence.

So a big notice saying that owners leave their children at their own
risk won't work,

No.

Every time a kid comes to your meeting/activity/scouting event and you
let them take part then you accept a duty of care for that kid. You
cannot unilaterally lay down that duty at a whim. you relinquish/hand
it back to the parent/guardian when they come to collect the kid.

When you have that duty you must act with the safety and welfare of
the child at heart as any reasonably practicable adult would do at all
times you hold it..

'Children coming to scouting do so at their own risk' is largely
meaningless as regards risk meaning 'any' risk which is largely what
these notices try to confer/infer.

If say you were aware that your scouts had just built their campfire
around an old gasoline storage tank full of petroleum spirit and you
did nothing to stop them lighting it and getting blown to bits you
would likely be deemed negligent. Trying to argue that the scouts took
part at their own risk and you accepted no responsibility would be
laughed at for a very long time.........it won't save you!

Classically, it's the cloakroom style notice that says something such
as 'owners leave their belongings at their own risk' which most people
believe that if anything happens to their coats its always the owners
loss. Not so. The cloakroom people have a duty of care towards you and
your coat. If some thief steals in or overpowers the attendants and
nicks you coat then the cloakroom is not liable. in that case the risk
is yours to bear. If, however, the attendants sloped off for a
cigarette leaving it unmanned or started handing out your coat to any
TDH, then they would be liable. Same goes for car parks, etc.

You can't be negligent and blame it on someone else!

how about any children not collected within 15 mins of
the end of the meeting will be sold to the highest bidder.  Is that OK?

No.

Child slavery is against the law.

If a child is left behind at the end of the meeting then they're still
your responsibility. You have accepted a duty of care for that child
until you hand it back to the parents. If you hand it on to someone
else then you can only do so with the child's safety and welfare at
heart, acting as a reasonable person, and to someone who the parents
could reasonably expect you to hand it over to.

Thus if you have to go but the GSL is there, you can hand it over to
them and they will take over if they accept it. If it's been a long
time and the parents have been gone for ages you could take the child
round to the local police station. Etc.

What you can't do is simply walk out saying: 'It's 8.15 pm, the
meeting finished at 8 pm, I don't get paid to hang around. I'm off
duty as a scouter once the meeting finishes, I've packed away, and
locked the HQ. What happens to the kid now is not my responsibility.'
That would be abandonment.

GAGS
--
Paul Harris

.

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