Re: Why does the SA do it?
- From: gags.nw@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:21:20 -0800 (PST)
On 3 Dec, 18:09, Steve <steviephil...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2 Dec, 00:53, GAGS <gags...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ahh, all GEC members are trustees.
Ahh, you remembered!
Err no, I never knew.
Well you know now! :-)
Meeting the demands of the ISA will be a considerable burden on all
volunteer organisations.
In the SA we are kinda used to this C**p,
IMO it's not a case of we're used to all this so we can cope. Nothing
of the sort! The impact will be significant IMO because it will place
more strain on those parts which are already under strain and for
which, in many places, there are serious resource implications.
so we have no excuse really
but I suspect a lot of other, smaller, volunteer organisations or
clubs wont know what has hit them.
A lot won't know what's going to hit them; big and small!
It will have a major impact on adult resource for/in scouting. MAJOR.
And right now we seem to be walking - more like ambling - serenely
into it.
Yes, but apart from GSLs running about like silly things,
Are you a GSL!!?
Please don't give the view (even accidentally) that you're happy to
see GSLs running about like headless chickens
chasing....well......chicken feed!
GSLs should be proactively fostering and supporting all ascpects of
scouting in a group. If done well it's a massive job. Even if only
half done it's a 'killer'! The last thing GSLs want to do is go off
chasing paper.
Oi Ewan! You'd like to sign another (admin) form wouldn't you!!?
:-)
the intial
impact will not be that significant,
It will be IMO!!!!
In Scouting one of the most challenging jobs that a GSL faces is
getting prospective leaders and helpers (the 'fish') to bite.
Two ways that don't work, in fact they're often found to work against
recruitment.
One is making a head on approach in full uniform and giving them the
'wouldn't you like to wear the crazy kecks, do knots, sing 'riding
along...', spend a wet cold night under canvas, it's only 2-hours a
week,....etc? Sure you might like them to do some of these things
later but this sort of heads up traditional approach can sometimes
have prospective candidates running for cover.
Two is worse IMO. It's getting a candidate signed up, raring to go,
etc, and then saying: 'I'll be back in 6 weeks (after the CRB check)'
and actually having to wait 10 weeks because the forms were left on
the mantlepiece somewhere.
You will not be able to 'employ' a leader/helper, even under direct,
close supervision before they've been checked and registered.
Read it again: The word is NOT.
And if you can't get those forms done asap and hope for a little
patience as well, then you're going to find all that enthusiasm that
was awaiting nurturing has vanished.
Vanishing enthusiasm = vanishing young people.
for the leader just another form
to fill in really.
It'll be at least 3 forms per leader/section.
Let's not argue about figures. It will be more!!
However the real major impact for the SA will be on future
recruitment, you should still be able to ask a parent\adult along to
'help' on one ocaision but if they come along to 'help' the next week,
and are not monitored etc, you will be almost certainly breaking the
law.
Yes someone's seemingly done the RA for you!
This is not going to work.
So you ask the parent\adult along to help once, but for them to come
again you have to complete a CRB, register with ISA, check they are
not barred etc. That will kill a lot of the casual recruitment stone
dead ........
Absolutely!
The process now (of volounteer recruitment) will have to be very much
more like the professional model. In my youth I used to work as a
professional activity instructor for local authorities, adults and
children groups. For a couple of years it was the only job I had. The
process of recruitment was as you would expect, fill in an application
form, give referances, employer interviews, checks referances and
qualifications etc, hopefully you get the job and can start work.
Takes few weeks maybe.
That's pretty similar to the volunteer's process.
Professional employers are used to this type of paper work, I doubt
CRB and ISA will make much differance to them, especially as they
normally have paid admin staff to do all the work.
Certainly. We have unpaid leaders!
So the parent\adult who now wants to volunteer is no longer in a
position to 'try before you buy' so to speak, they will need to
understand that however willing they are to help, it will be xx weeks
before they can become involved. An incentive to recruitment it is
not.
Correct.
I wonder how much of the ISA C**p, produced by professionals no doubt,
is professionals wanting to impose professional methods of recruitment
on volounteers ? A sceptic might think that professionals have a
vested interest in making things as difficult as possible for
volunteer groups.
However where I see the significant impact of the ISA, is outside of
SA in the smaller organisations and activity clubs. These might not
consider themselves as 'volunteers' as such, but they will be impacted
quite significantly by the new regulations.
Just look at the numbers!
Today it's about being seen when you're about. So just complete the
forms and hey presto!
Er won't be anything of the sort.
Consider a rambling club that has child (under 18) and adult members.
Up to now there has been no requirement for the adults to be CRBd,
though some clubs will have done this for key members who may act as
'supervisors' during metings or activities.
The Safeguarding Act will require that all adults who engage in these
activities;
2 (1) The activities referred to in paragraph 1(1) are—
(a) any form of teaching, training or instruction of children, unless
the
teaching, training or instruction is merely incidental to teaching,
training or instruction of persons who are not children;
(b) any form of care for or supervision of children, unless the care
or
supervision is merely incidental to care for or supervision of persons
who are not children
Not exactly sure what incidental means, but I cant see how a mixed
group of adults and children can interact on an activty without the
adults carrying out some form of teaching, training or instruction
towards the children.
If it's an 'incidental' association. 6 or 7 families joing together
for a holiday don't constitute a 'holiday club', the same families for
an afternoon walk do not consititute a hiking/rambling club, etc,
It's a club by intention, not a club by simple association.
So what does the rambling club do, ISA register and CRB all their
members over 16, or ban the under 18s ?
Essentially Yes.
There is also the spectre of having to ISA register and CRB children
in clubs and societies when they exceed 16, since there is a
possibility they may become involved in 'any form of training' or 'any
form of supervision' of anyone in the club who is under 18. Now if
this does happen, and given that a lot of over 16s will be in a club
or society of some sort, will we over the years end up with virtually
all the UK adult population having been ISA registered and CRBd ?
Yes. You've got it now!
As I've said before. There are about 3 million or do with disclosures
right now. when ISA is fully in this will rise to about 11 million.
Yes! Eleven million - that's one-third of the adult population.
We are continually seeking ways to wrap ever more kids up ini cling
film so thick we're going to smother them.
But why does it surprise you? The CRB and ISA are both linked to the
National ID Card sheme.
Marc: maybe the SA's going to sign up to be the lead org for the NatID
card sheme?
Yippee! :-(
GAGS
.
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