Re: Why does the SA do it?

On 27 Nov, 08:33, ewansc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:15:14 -0800 (PST), GAGS <gags...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I went to a scouting meeting on Monday night during which a CP 'issue'
arose. The discussion - I was snoring silently on the back row -
turned to web pages for groups. Don't know what was said by someone
blurted out: 'Of course it's a HQ Rule that you can't put where your
Scout HQ is, and at what times you all meet, on any sort of printed
handout or web page'.
snip
I've been at a similar meeting and have been quoted a similar "rule!"

Our website apparently contravenes these "rules" because it says where
and when we meet.

There are loads of us saying: 'What rules!!?'

The only thing you'll ever have on this is 'guidance or policy'. It's
impractical to have 'rules'. That's why there are none to be found!

But God knows how many Leaders still spout them!

Sorry, if some perv can't work that out for himself then he isn't a
threat. It may be possible to "hide" a Scout Hut with anonymity but
gosh, what do we do about the schools?

Oh gosh yes!

At the top of my road there's a building. Using my IQ of 37, I've been
trying to figure out what it is! I've found out it's a school. How did
that happen? Someone told me to read the word 'SCHOOL' written in 2'
high letters spread right across the entrance!

But a building's no good if I want to get up to some 'naughty stuff'
is it? I need vulnerable 'little people'. I wonder what time they'll
be there?

Last week I hung around outside at 5 am, then I tried 9 pm, then 5pm
(but I only saw adults then)......then someone told me - and I'm now
going to tell you because this is dead hard to work out - try 9am -
4pm!!

I've also had questions about photographs and how images can be
photoshopped to put peoples' faces in unsuitable images. Yeah, but it
isn't as simple as lifting a low res web image, cutting out the face
and pasting it into another shot. Most such works look like those old
montages where you put your head through a hole and became some
postcard character.

Same with me!

What I find really funny these days is the TV when it's in schools and
showing general shots of kids. It either pixxies their faces or just
shows the bottom of their legs and feet. WTF (what's) point of doing
that. Isn't it easier just to show nothing!!? I think we all know what
a school is and looks like!

Message to CP industry: 'People such as me, Ewan, Marc and thousands
of others are not f'ing idiots. Please don't be so condescending and
treat us as such!'

I think that rather than hiding we should be out there flying the flag
and shouting from the rooftops.

Absolutely! Any opportunity to spread the word I'll take it.

If Leaders are scared to publicies the
movement, what hope the kids?

No f'ing hope at all!

(I'm sorry I'm swearing a lot these days, but some of these threads
are driving me crazy! I'll try and clean up my act.)


As far as CP is concerned I am with you. I think things have got out
of hand. There is a paranoia about the issue. Yet I don't see too many
youth workers or teachers beating kids to death, or systematically
raping children. But if "public fears" are based on truth there is a
perv around every corner.


Let's take a 'for example'. You take kids out on a MHM activity. You
follow all the rules. You risk assess everything you believe needs
RA'ing. All the kids die on the activity - you survive. Negligence?

Er..no. A 747 way off course pancaked on top of you. No way it or you
could avoid the tragedy.

So what do we do to prevent this sort of thing happening again? Ban
MHM activities? Ban aeroplanes? Live in an underground
bunker?.........

Nothing! It's an accident.

But want to bet there'll be someone out there writing more rules?

Let's go back to publicising your location/meets. Let's say you do
publicise. What's the risk of an undesirable hanging around outside?
Well if outside is a public place and the undesirable is doing nothing
untoward then there's not a lot you can do. But isn't he a threat? No.
Eh? He is a potential threat! If an adult is present he likely won't
take the risk.

Can we guarantee? No, we can never guarantee! I do know though that
every decent Leader we have (and that's thousands!) will always behave
as a shield. I will do my best (that's what I promise!) to try to make
sure no paedo will get past me. And who's checking me out? My
assistant!

I think the CRB and disclosure process are necessary. And I think it's
good that we (scouting) sign up to them. But let's not go beyond what
they aim to do.

I have been checked 7 times. 'Nothing known' is on every disclosure. I
have always been 'visible' to scouting. With all this what is the risk
of me doing harm? It's finite! (It can never be zero because no
guarantee can ever be given. And that wouldn't change one iota if we
were talking about Mother Theresa!)

Why hasn't anything bad been picked up? Ans? Because I've done nothing
bad? No, there's no guarantee of that. Because nothing's been
reported, heard or seen? Yes! My first check was in 2002. So in 6
years when I've been watched nothing's happened. So now assess the
risk from me.

To come to the same conclusion all that's needed is one initial check
and then 'internal supervision'. No need for other checks if I've been
doing the same thing in the same place, etc.

So the other 6 checks? Waste of effort and money? Okay, one could say
benefit of hindsight, but didn't the 'RA' of the first one and
subsequent 'internal reviews', plus religiously following the scouting
CP policy (YPF) suggest that?

There may at some point have been a time when society aimed for higher
things, for a more ethereal, more spiritual life. But if that ever
was, then I believe that we have reverted to a more inherrent life by
mass hysteria.

Quite possibly.

I put it down to lack of confidence and unwillingness to accept
responsibility.

It's happening now whatever the cause.


Does that make any sense to anyone?

It sure does!


And the thing that Marc has highlighted through his thought-provoking
comments is that it's not getting any better, in fact it's getting
worse.

Some people will argue that trying too hard to cover and check
everything will provide little CP benefit and more likely will weigh
everyone down so much the only sensible thing to do is give up, close
down and leave scouting as a quaint 20th C distant memory.

I fear the impact of the ISA and the likely response.

It'll make children safer? Possibly but no hard evidence, more likely
anecdotal.

It'll mean the end of having to get enhanced disclosures (EDs) every-
now-and-then? No it won't! The SA policy of repeat checks every 5
years irrespective of any CP RA is here to stay. The ISA thingy will
only say when you've been barred. You can have a conviction, caution,
intelligence report, etc, but not be barred. How do you find out about
the latter? You get an ED.

There'll be less paper-work? In some instances that's true, but
overall no. There'll still be forms of paper to fill in. In fact for
many there'll be more.

But it's not going to force more people in to the system/process? Too
right it is! 3 million now, 11 million in the near future.

So we'll get more leaders and helpers? You are joking!!!!?

But things are not going to change significantly from what we do now?
You bet they are going to change!

Now we have a definition of frequency of support whereas before it was
up to local leaders to determine when the frequency of support of
parents/helpers reached a level which required them to go through
personal inquiry.

Furthermore, there'll be no supervised waiting/induction period or
such like. You sign someone up and provided they're supervised at all
times they can start to help/support while the checks are going
through the system. Not in the future. There you'll have to wait until
all checks are done all the way up to registration with the ISA. So if
you can't process forms quickly enough or there's a hold-up - then
there's no new support. And I guess (expect?) that anyone having to
wait a long time (cast your mind back to threads on here about
interminable waits for clearance!) will no doubt bugger-off somewhere
else.

In the future there'll be more checks on more people. Fact.

It still won't cost us a penny? Wait and see!

Prophet of Doom? Jeez Louise, God forbid!

GAGS
.

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