Re: Scouts, YLs, Sleeping (was Re: Scout at fifteen)

On 9 Oct, 09:10, Ewan Scott <ewansc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No. It's not a sick way of putting forward a challenge. It's harsh
reality. Cold as early morning reality.

That's the way that you see it. Sometimes closure is something that
has to be done. but I'm not sure that your approach as represented
here is ideal.

I'm giving you the bare facts, the stark reality side, just one side
of the picture. Read between the lines and you'll see the other side
of the picture.


I work very hard at my role. It's very difficult and it's time-
consuming. I don't always succeed.

Thank the Lord for that, I'm glad that you fail.

Yes! And after numerous years on here you should know me by now! :-)

I never said that I was very happy to fail but you should've guessed
that.

However, I'm
concerned that you see your inability to close a group as a failure.

Your interpretation.

If I'd have said that my job was to rescue groups, provide support
organisationally and programme-wise, and pull out as many stops as
possible to get people back on their feet, then you'd probably have
not given things a second thought.

Telling you from the other side - because the other side (closure) is
a reality - shocked you into comment.

(But I should've guessed that. Sorry!)

The fact that you have been unable to close a Group suggests that the
Group is viable after all.

Correct. Thast's the most likely conclusion.

If it were not viable it would close.

Hmmm...Incorrect. That's not necessarily true. We have a number of
groups (nationally) who struggle on year after year in a 'vegetative
state'. They may still be alive, but are they viable?

The
fact that you see your inability to close a group as a failure worries
me. I would see it as a success.

You assumed I see it as failure! :-)


I have no fears or qualms about sticking the dagger in (i.e.
recommending closure).

I think we have probably guessed that much ;-(


Hard, tough decisions have to be made and a lot of the time we (in
scouting) run away from having to make them. We procrastinate, we look
for miracles where none exist, we sometimes believe that because it's
'good' to be volunteers in a volunteer movement there can be no 'bad'.
Real life isn't like that.

More and more these days I find that more damage can be done through
delay and indecision than by a quick (but nevertheless well-thought
through) coup-de-grace.

I don't do sympathy.

Obviously

Because it's often hard to be outwardly sympathetic, but inside it
churns me up.


I don't do one last chance.

Evidently

Because often 'one last chance' is actually the 'umpteenth last
chance'.


I don't do hanging around waiting for a miracle.

Er, yes you do!

I wait as long as possible, but there comes a time when a decision has
to be made. I don't make that decision - I provide the facts, some
foresight (from experience), and a recommendation (which can be
ignored). So when a decision has to be made it's done so based on a
very wide range of criteria.

I don't do picking up the pieces, because I make sure there are no
bits left to pick over.

Scorched earth policy, that works.

:-)


I'm sorry GAGS, but it seems to me that you are so intent on adhering
to the letter of the rules that you are starting to miss the point of
Scouting.

No I'm not!

Sometimes people find it hard to make a decision, especially tough
decisions. I'm there to help.

We are here to develop young people Physically,
Intellectually, Socially and Spiritually - I'd extend that to all
members as I see constant development in many of our adult members as
a direct result of being involved in Scouting.

Of course!

And we do this is in many different ways. Some ways which used to work
don't do so now and plodding on trying to make them work actually uses
up vital resources we can ill afford when we're trying to meet demand
from elsewhere.


A group which is irretrievably financially bankrupt MAY require
closure, but if there are Leaders, and Exec and members available then
it is our duty not to make sure there are no pieces left to pick up,
but rather that we help them collect those pieces and put a new Group
together.

Of course!

If people have been doing their jobs - and that includes districts
provideing oversight where necessary - then finance should rarely be a
reason to close a group. It's resources - people resource especially -
where the reasons often lie.


A Group which has no kids needs to cease operations, but may still be
salvageable.

That too is correct. From a district perspective there are strategic
factors (as well as a host of other factors) to consider.

However, if a group has no potential to serve a community and that
community is clearly saying no to scouting, then it's time to shut up
shop. (Of course we'll try our best not to get to this state first by
trying to persuade the community orf the value of scouting, but we
don't have the luxury of flogging a dead horse.)


Otherwise, we should be doing our utmost to keep Groups open.

Sometimes we can't do our utmost, just our best. Sadly it's not enough
sometimes.

Sure, if
the local adults cannot support the Group then we have no option, but
if it is a question of filling gaps, then we find ways of helping, of
holding hands. We do our best, we go out of our way NOT to close
Groups.

True, but we must be careful not to blind ourselves with the mantra
that no group should ever close come what may. Sometimes we just can't
fill gaps.


We have too many single section Groups in our District. Some we could
merge.

You are not alone.

However, the long term aim surely has to be to find sectional
Leaders to allow for expansion, youth numbers are not generally the
issue.

Of course that's the long term aim, but just how much long term do you
have?

Can we wait a few years for someone to turn up on the doorstep? What
happens in the meantime? We can only wait so long.


We had one Group run for many years with no Exec, funds locked in a
bank account because there were no signatories to the cheque account.
There were many reasons why that Group should have been closed. We
kept it open, we resolved the issues and it has potential to grow.

There is never just ONE reason why a group should survive or close.
And that is quite likely not the same reason why another one nearby
should survive or close.

It's complex.


Another Group lost everything but the lease on its hall. District
could have disposed of the Lease, it didn't, the hall was made to be
self financing and there is now a Group back in that hall after an
absence of four years. (Yes, even our train wreck of a District can be
positive).

Of course.


If your DC has given you the role of actively closing Groups, then you
are right, I find that abhorrent. You become the Witchfinder General.

What do you think!!?

I do like the name Witchfinder General though! :-)


GAGS
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Scouts, YLs, Sleeping (was Re: Scout at fifteen)
    ... Cold as early morning reality. ... Telling you from the other side - because the other side (closure) is ... Ah, the vital resources argument. ... We have too many single section Groups in our District. ...
    (uk.rec.scouting)
  • Re: Tussling with kooks. IMIPAK the asian!
    ... mind have given up on "objective reality" and talk only of "subjective ... pride or racial pride is involved. ... same reason, never ask a salesman if you should buy something. ... These references to the Inquisition are making me twitchy. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • OT: The Ass Of God was Re: OT: Desk Attack
    ... Well, infinite ... But Rich, don't you see ... > doing LSD some decades ago partly for that reason). ... Just like any subpart of a larger whole, its subjective reality is ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: Gross National Happiness
    ... our reason, we can never know the answers. ... time imply that reason leads us into contradiction, therefore reality ... it breaches the fundamental principle of empiricism (all postualtions ... God, we cannot know that there is not a God. ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
  • Re: The Point
    ... Does an "eye for an eye" correspond to reason? ... To reality? ... As well when Baha'u'llah states that disbelievers in God can not be ...
    (soc.religion.bahai)