Re: Scouts doing Platinum?
- From: GAGS <gags.nw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:34:40 -0700
On 19 Oct, 12:31, Ewan Scott <ewansc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
But be careful here because you're potentially opening up a can of
worms.
How so?
I'd think I'd open up more than a can of worms if I walked into your
group and unilaterally assumed responsibility for one of your sections
without as much as a by your leave.
The explorer programme lies outside of the group. The CSPA is part of
the explorer programme.
Given that there appears to be no place for these Scouts
No. That was not what was said.
why
not try to get them started in the hope that they might travel a
little further to continue once started?
Let's try for a little bit more than hope shall we?
After all, one thing that
Central London does not have a problem with is transport.(but see
later comment)
So if transport isn't a problem then what is causing the
inconvenience?
For a start the CSPA is a part of the explorer programme. You have no
responsibilities for that programme (or at least I'll assume you've
been given no responsibilities). In starting that programme you'll
then be taking on two programmes - a scout one and an explorer one.
It's a big enough challenge trying to do one very well! You may also
be viewed as running an 'integrated section'. For a start, you need
the permission of the DC to run an integrated section and, secondly,
the DC cannot authorise an integrated section at the scout/explorer
level (IIRC).
I think that Eddie is being pragmatic and trying to do his best to
keep kids involved for as long as is possible.
Didn't say he wasn't!
He is not trying to
hang on to Explorer age Scouts because he can't let them go.
I said: "'You may also be VIEWED as running an 'integrated section'".
My
reading of Eddie is that he would gladly send them off if there was
somewhere for them to go.
But there is somewhere! It's just that somewhere is not 'convenient'.
If he maintains 18-21 in his Troop, every
Explorer-age Scout that stays on longer than needs be is denying a
place to another Scout. That is not Eddie's aim, I'm sure.
I'm sure it isn't.
If an ESL
or two appeared on his doorstep, I'm sure that Eddie would facilitate
their opening of an appropriate ESU - however it might be managed.
And I'm also certain that the DESC (who is responsible for the
explorer provision) would take a positive lead on that too.
Rather than trying to come up with many creative solutions I suggest
you try working with the DESC on solving the one problem - providing
'convenient' access to the explorer programme for yp progressing from
scouts in your group.
That's an easy response and you know it.
But that is the issue!
There are many, many
Districts where filling sections with kids is never going to be a real
problem.
And in some it is! :-)
However, finding a pair of adults to run a section is a
serious barrier to overcome.
Of course. The lack of adult resource is our biggest challenge. I am
well aware of that!
But lack of adult resource wasn't the reason given by Eddie for his
suggested course of action. (Though it's probably an underlying one.)
Quote: 'our scouts do not have a conveniently near esu'.
Where we have people going the extra mile to keep kids involved, then
good on them. If we have them with us then we have hope that we can
provide some form of service for them. If we let them go, then they
are lost to us.
Of course! But I'm sure there are lots of people who want to go that
extra mile.
Simply saying get the DESC to sort out provision is simplistic.
But it's what they're supposed to do! Strategic management and
management of resources are part of the DESC's job.
It's
like me saying that my DC should find me a new BSL.
Why should he? I've no doubt your DC will give you as much support as
possible if you need to find a new BSL, but ultimately responsibility
for finding section/assistant leaders to lead sections in a group lies
with the group. Just as the responsibility for finding leaders for the
explorer scout units lies with the explorer scout provision. (And I've
no doubt that they will be supported in that task by groups in the
district so far as is possible.)
It's not like you saying.....!!!!
It just isn't
realistic to expect a magic wand to wave and Leaders to appear.
Of course!
Equally, if the kids don't want to travel to another Unit, be it one
mile or two miles away, then how do you suggest the DEC overcomes that
barrier?
We haven't been told that the issue is that the kids don't want to
travel to the other unit! It's a problem with inconvenient
demographics.
I've seen districts of similar size and similar demand for explorer
scouting, one with 6 ESUs another with only 3 ESUs. Surprisingly, the
one with fewer ESUs provides better access to the explorer programme
for yp across their district. I've also seen a district (comprising 18
groups) with just 5 explorer leaders providing more yp with better
access to the explorer programme than a not too dissimilar district
(but comprising only 12 groups) with 14 explorer leaders.
I've seen districts who have planned their provision simply by saying:
'we'll have one (unit) at the top, one in the middle, and one at the
bottom'. Just because 'it looks nice'! No account has been taken of
the demand for explorer scouting - there may well be bigger and more
active troops in the 'bottom' and hardly any troops in the 'middle'.
No consideration has been given to remote areas with poor transport
links. No account is given to demands on leaders - I knew of one
leader who travelled 9 miles across their district to lead a ESU while
there was sufficient demand within 2 miles of their home for an ESU,
but none existed.
Yes it would be great if there were 2 explorer leaders within 200
yards of every troop in a district, but that isn't the case (and it's
never going to be!). A DESC has to manage very 'thin' resources, but
those need to be managed within a bigger picture that considers demand
(of and from yp), transport, facilities and their availability, costs,
equipment needs, etc. And many of these change over time. Not an easy
juggling act and not one with a simple solution for every case. In
fact we probably have to recognise that in some cases there is no
'ideal' solution so some 'radical/special' provisions need to be
considered/made in those cases. But special measures are not necessary
in every locality in every district. Surely not!
And who should have hold of this bigger picture of the explorer
provision? The DESC of course. (Yes I know some don't!)
Now it may be that the DESC needs support and advice in drawing up
(and continually refreshing/updating) this bigger picture; that's
where groups/troops come in.
That is why I suggested Eddie talks to the DESC and appraises them of
the situation in his group. Now it may be that the DESC tells him to
get on his horse - well then Eddie should have a quiet word with the
DESC's boss. Or it just may be that the DESC will look at a range of
possible solutions that either remove the 'inconvenience' or reduce it
somewhat and work with Eddie in doing so.
When people start saying I'm all right Jack, up yours then someone
somewhere loses out.
Certainly in my locale transport is a problem in the evenings and at
weekends. In London there is no shortage of transport but then again,
would I, as a parent, be happy about my kids traveling in London
unaccompanied, at night? Maybe not.
So that needs to be considered.
It may be that the only solution the DESC can see is to have an ESU
attached to Eddie's group. Fine, if adult resource can be found. If it
can't be found now, then things will have to wait but some interim
measures will need to be taken. Those interim measures could be
various and varied, but that's for the DESC working with Eddie and
(mindful of) the rest of the district to sort out.
And here's another element to factor into this sort of situation.
There may well be reasons why a person may not want to travel to
another Unit apart from the unfamiliarity and the distance. It may
well be the ethos of the Unit, or its Leaders.
Well if that's putting off yp joining then the DESC needs to sort that
(ethos and/or leaders) out pdq.
I've twice had Scouts leave my Troop to go to another Group. Both were
right little pains in the backsides, both trouble-makers, both always
disrupting things and neither gaining any sort of awards. I made their
life difficult when they misbehaved. They had a choice, shape up or
ship out. They shipped out. No loss to us and the general atmosphere
in the Troop improved without them.
They went to another Troop, discipline is shockingly poor, the kids
run riot. Those kids would never in a million years come to a Unit
that I was involved with. Yet my Unit has 18 members and the older
Scouts are keen to join it - even though ES do very little programme
work. The other Unit is down to about six and none of mine will go to
it, none of theirs will come to mine.
As you know, there are no easy solutions to this
I know!
and any solution is
better than no solution.
Hmmm....disagree - some solutions are far worse than nothing! :-)
No two problems are the same and even if they were then they'd still
likely need different solutions.
Eddie's problem here is probably more than simply one of
'inconvenience'. Eddie's approach might be a workable solution (or
there again it might not). But surely a solution that makes everyone
happy (or as many as possible!) is more likely to come from
consultation and support? Eddie needs to work with the DESC (and vice
versa). Certainly if all he gets is the cold-shoulder then he's going
to have to be more radical, but even then he should get the support of
the DC. Doing things alone isn't always the best solution for
everyone. And trying to do things that belong in the realm of someone
else can potentially lead into a downward spiral.
Finished. (For now!)
Back to standing in the garden in the middle of the night - boy it's
cold tonight! - exposing myself and taking pictures of a heavenly
princess! EFT for 7h 30m exposure, is 4.23 am. (Yes all this exposing
is automatic but every now and then I have to twiddle my knobs to keep
things straight.) Don't suppose there's anyone around on ukrs at this
time with some hot coffee and biscuits? I see even Mr Rainsbury has
gone to bed - obviously all this teaching melarky is wearing him out.
Ah well off we go to have a twiddle! :-)
GAGS
.
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