Re: Group Harmony

In message <q9T8i.4728$sM1.727@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Al Chartres <al@[nospam].invalid> writes
"Paul Harris" <nospam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:cQ4ueyHhi9YGFwxq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It is always better to do that if it is possible but sometimes some advice from outside is useful. You are already asking us for that advice, if you don't find a solution here then someone local may be better placed to help as they might have seen the problem first hand but it will need tact as it doesn't sound like these people will take criticism easily.

Yes this is my first point of call. There is a district member I hinted things at who must have done something behind the scenes because this morning I have received an email suggesting we may have a debriefing session to discuss issues. I just hope if it happens is remains "friendly". Generally if they disagree at a meeting they raise their voices and at the last exec I had an apology straight after the meeting so I know they do realize when they act inappropriately.

Provided that you remain calm you will have an opportunity to help them to see that there are others ways of doing things that may actually produce better results.

Most YP vote with their feet, if they are unhappy they don't come back.

That is not ok by me.

I stated it as a fact, that is what happens elsewhere. If they are unhappy they will leave, those who are still there either accept the situation or are still there for other reasons such as Parental influences.

I don't hold with bullying but I sometimes wonder if we are turning into a Nation of wimps.

All depends on definitions, I am ex forces so have seen all sides now. The card system in the forces I am sure will lead to a weaker army. I have heard discrimination is still rife, and that's not acceptable to me. It's a pretty raw place the forces, you work hard and play even harder, it's not the way for everyone however and I have seen individuals really suffer. I have also seen people change, some for the better but not always.

Your knowledge is probably better than mine as I have not experienced it first hand.

Try not suggesting that the method is out of date and look at suggesting that there may be other techniques that may produce better results. You need to impart some management skills without being seen to be doing so. They must see that you do things differently, have they noticed that sometimes what you do works as well or even better?

I hope so. We have grown rapidly as a section and have excellent retention, and now have non group members on the waiting list, some even from brownies. I am starting to think we have made a rod for our own backs, we need a bigger hall and more leaders.

There are times when the capacity of the venue does limit numbers unless you can use rotational planning so that some meet outside or elsewhere. That isn't easy and takes much more thought and time. Sometimes you could do with more Leaders but there are other ways by using Parents, Instructors and other Groups that you can get round these issues. It is perfectly possible to run quite a large Scout Troop on minimal adult Leaders provided those who are doing it work together.

So what did the other Leaders think was the cause of the lack of response, did you or the other Leader say anything about possibly trying a different approach to encourage people to support the Group. These things can be discussed without being confrontational if approached in a constructive manner.

When I ask for help of this nature, I ask verbally and give them a letter with details of what, when where. I see a lot of them around as I say, so thats not too hard, either that or I loiter outside other section meeting at pick up time.
It was other leaders who told me what had happened, they are parents too. I am of a mind to just hint at a problem and see if it mellows. Retirement will negate the problem at the end of the year, however will introduce a new one of not having replacements, so one of two of us will have many hats to wear for a period next year I guess.

If the person who is the main problem is going then that will be an opportunity to change things if they haven't changed before and you will be able to use your skills and contacts to encourage some of those Parents to become more actively involved. I always advocate a family camp as that gives to time to talk to them and to see them in action so that you see what they do rather than what they say they do.

To be the GSL I would have to learn, not to communicate, never tell anyone anything, never have meeting, never agree with anyone, never pass application forms on, get CRB's done etc etc. I could never learn that. Am I right, thats what every leader I ever met who has a GSL has ever said, were they exagerating?

Remember that the ones who post about such things are those with a problem, where it is working well they don't need to seek help so you don't hear about it.

This is from verbal conversations. However, I recently collated some information for a district event, St George's day, so I could produce a powerpoint for the service. The DC emailed the GSL's several times asking for the information to be sent to me. 2 responded within a week of been asked others waited to the last few days. 1 was the friday before the sunday. One emailed at 11:00 on the sunday morning. Shortly after this all groups were asked to provide similar information for a local paper, as few responded again, at about 19:30 on the day of the dealine, I was aksed to pass the information I had to the person collating the information for the district. This may be a sympton of the heavy reliance on email nowadays. How would it have been achieved before?

I know quite a lot about GSL's, I was one and I manage several these days. What you are saying does not sound unfamiliar, to those of us who are on line all the time responding to an email is something we do immediately but for others they may not check their mail very often. I if need something I might well email first but I will follow it up with a phone call if there is no answer.
--
Paul Harris
.

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