Re: Money / Fees


"Tony Mochan" <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:op.tdcmjtwi700lht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

snip details of the issue

How does this compare with other youth clubs/interests?

Everyone's different so comparison is difficult.


And how do you get around the problems above?

By Solving them! :-)


And then of course, there are the other sections to consider ...

Confused.


Well I hope what follows doesn't make you even more confused!

There are a number of subs options and if you decide that you need a change
then you need to carefully consider each of these. They will solve some
problems but maybe cause some others! You have to pick one which is right
for you.

Here are some of the questions and issues I can see yuo'll need to think
over.

Frequency.
Weekly/monthly/termly/annually? Well once a year will generally mean less
overall admin effort and time compared to weekly, with monthly and termly
fitting in between. How will asking for £1.50 per week, £6 per month (4w/m),
£18 per term (12w/t), or £54 per year (36w year) be received? Some people
will perceive £54 p/a to be a lot more than £1.50 p/w even though it's
exactly the same!

Most Groups look at a lot of their budget over the year (i.e. the group
accounts are done annually) so you need to consider things on the whole over
this timespan and either account for things once in this period or in
smaller amounts (weekly/monthly/termly). Remember the £1.50 pppw should be
set with a view to meeting spending commitments over the year; you can't run
a group just by living out of what's in your pocket each week.

What do you do when it's a 5 week month or a term that lasts more or less
than the average 12 weeks? Well I don't think you can have a situation where
you vary subscriptions every month or every term to account for these; best
is to fix the rate for every calendar month or every term, irrespective of
whether it's a 5 week month or 11 or 17 week term - average it out over a
year.

Fixed/Variable Costs
The fixed costs tend to be those associated with running the group as a
whole, e.g. maintenance/running costs of HQ, services, large equipment
costs, etc. We can also include in here AMS - it's fixed for, and payable
each, year.

There are essentially three ways of meeting the fixed costs: 1. from
subscriptions; 2. from means other than subscriptions; 3. from both.

My old group used No. 2. We had 3/4 big fundraisers each year (one of which
was - still is - a big district-wide event) which more than covered the
fixed costs, including payment of the AMS for every member. (GA money also
went into this pot.) Nice and simple. GEC ran these, they collected the
money, they managed the fixed costs. Subs from members collected by the
sections then stayed in section accounts to meet the variable (essentially
programme) costs of the sections. Any surplus (above contingencies) in
sections from time to time was added to the group account to further meet
the fixed costs. It worked for them, but it does rely on those other means
of raising revenue. For many groups this isn't an option.

The GEC should have an idea of how much it needs to run the group for the
year (maintenance, services, equipment, depreciation, etc) plus short and
long-term contingencies. Simplest way is to take that amount (less money
from other sources) and cost it to each member and levy the proportion at
the frequency you collect subs, i.e. if it costs £10 pppt say then the subs
for each member should be at least £10 pt plus the variable (programme)
costs. This proportion towards fixed costs I suggest should be the same for
each member irrespective of section.

Varaible costs are those associated with running section programmes.
Sections should be able to give an idea of these. Here they can vary
according to section. Often I've found that the scout section costs tend to
be higher than the beavers - more often outdoors and more active. Work these
out, proportion them to each member in the section, and levy at the
collection frequency.

That's largely the way people come up with a subscription rate (proportion
to meet fixed costs plus proportion to meet programme costs).

Two issues arise from these which often need further consideration.

AMS
Basically two ways of accounting for this: 1. from subs; 2. from
fundraising. 2. means just find the event and raise enough money! If it has
to be from 1 then again there are principally two methods.

Firstly, split the total cost per member into the times you collect subs and
add this on to the subs rate. E.g. say AMS all comes to £25/y and you
collect subs 3 times, i.e. termly, then it's £8.30/t on top of the other
fixed costs plus variable costs or 70p/week (based on 36 weeks), etc. This
has the advantage of levying small amounts and thus small (though regular)
bills for parents rather than the shock of everything in one go. However,
what do you do with the member who joins just before AMS is due and what
about the member who leaves just before the due date? As AMS is an annual
charge on a fixed date irrespective of how long a member has been involved
is this fair? Do you say it'll even itself out and it just happens to be
tough titty on those who get caught in such a situation? Do you return money
to those who leave just before the due date? Do you make up any shortfall
from Group funds for those who join just before the due date?

Secondly, you could of course avoid some of these problems by levying the
AMS in one go just before it's due, i.e. anyone who's a member on that date
pays. (Which of course is what HQ/County/District do to you.) Downside to
that is if you levy subs termly say then at the beginning of Jan you could
be saying to parents that's £25 subs + £25 AMS - £50 ouch!

Plusses and minuses wherever you look! Over to you on that one.

Activities & Camps
Do you include all activities in your subs? Saves collecting each and every
time you go out on activites, but means that the sub is higher because
everything is all-in. Is that fair then on the yp who might not like going
climbing at the local wall say every month or some other activity? If it is
all-in, then how will parents react to a much higher bill for subs (even
though it's not actually higher but just collected in larger less frequent
amounts)?

I think most people will go with a system that levies subs to cover the
'basics' of the programme for the section, i.e. 'small' materials that you
use regularly, badges, awards, neckers, books, photocopying, etc, but then
charges at the time of an activity the cost for each and every activity.
This still means you have collections of (relatively) small amounts from
time to time but is fair in that it only charges those who take part. The
issue with camps is very much the same and most people I know charge
separately for each.

The other advantage with having a basic programme charge + extra charges for
activities is that you avoid any potential problems with GA. There isn't a
problem with using some subs that have been GA'd to support/sponsor some
activities to a relatively small degree, e.g. it's £5 pp for climbing next
week but the section will sponsor 50p pp towards the cost so it's only
£4.50. However, bigger more costly activities such as camps will certainly
run into a problem if these are collected for in subs and the subs are GA'd.
You strictly then should account for which part of the subs goes towards
'basic' costs and only GA that part. If you were to do it for the whole
amount including camps and activities you potentially could be accused of
fraud.

So there's some more things to think about!

What about yp from disadvantaged/low-income families? I suggest you address
this issue on an individual basis as needs be. A group policy can be useful
so each section adopts a similar type of approach. If you had someone in
this situation what amount would you support? Well that's up to you! In the
past when I've had this situation I've normall given financial support from
funds up to a limit that supports the basic subscription (i.e. that which
supports fixed costs needed by the group plus basic weekly programme costs
plus AMS). I don't include support for extra activities above the basic or
camps, however, in the groups I've been in there are extra (trust type)
funds set aside for these cases on request to the GEC. I do expect them to
support fundraisers in return. It's a difficult one and depends on
invdividual circumstances.

What do I prefer? Termly subs to cover fixed costs of group (if not already
accounted for through other means as was the case in my old group) plus
basic costs of sectional programme. AMS levied once per year for all members
on the due date. Specific extra charges for activities above the 'basic' and
camps at cost.

How did I budget? (Did? Yes, did! In my present district role subs and
budgeting is not as straight-forward and it would take naother 5 pages to
tell you! Hence, I relate what I did in my old Group.) Every April just
before AGM I'd sit down with my ASL's and draw up the budget for the next
year based on estimate of numbers, projected activities, running costs,
equipment needed, etc and then offset this with expected revenue from
section fundraisers. Group costs were met by the GEC from non-subs revenues
so I didn't have to think about these, however, if I did I'd get the info
from the GT and bundle it in. I'd then add on a
depreciation/inflation/replacement cost (for section eqpt., etc) of usually
about 5% and a contingency fund cost of about10%. (All based on historical
records and modified slightly if the section funds were running at too great
a surplus, e.g. if we had more members join than expected.) Add it all up
and divide by the (estimated) number of section members in the year and base
it on an 'average term'.

You usually get more questions than answers when you ask this sort of
qiestion about money/subs. That's not a bad thing. All you have to do is
come up with the answers to suit you and your circumstances!

HTH

GAGS


.

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