Re: Hornby X04 motor

"Greg Procter" <procter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
simon wrote:

"Greg Procter" <procter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
simon wrote:

"Sailor" <apeterabraham@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
On Jul 14, 1:51 am, Christopher A. Lee <ca...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:06:04 -0700 (PDT), Sailor

<apeterabra...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Is / was there a 5 pole version of the 3 pole X04 motor.

There were actually three alternatives that were a direct slot-in

The Romford Bulldog,

One from ECM(?) that used a Buhler motor in a frame that fitted the
Triang chassis,

The Airfix 5-pole.

Whether you could get any of these today I have no idea - we're
talking about maybe 30 years ago.

Has anyone news of the trader who bought modelspares? When might
business resume?


Thanks men --- it looks as if time has stood still since 1976 --
these things were very familiar then. I looks as if a X04 will have
to do.

Sad really -- I bought a pretty little M7 on eBay which was
immaculate & as new, MIB, virgin and never run. So I replaced the
pickup arms and mounting plate, re wheeled the pony truck and ran
it -
twice! Now it has an open circuit commutator connection and the
stripped off of a brush carrier!

As Sam Vella, our Maltese Chef said of an egg, newly boiled, which
a runny white and a solid yolk , " The eggs are too fresh". - We had
not revictualled for about 8 weeks!


Suprising if there isnt a mashima that cant replace the X04.
Try Branchlines. No doubt Andrew Mullins would have told you straight
what to do. If the new owner doesnt know then hopefully he can find


Any motor smaller than the X04 outline can replace an X04, but ...
- The X04 had two pegs on the front bearing plate to align the
- The X04 had a rear screw lug as part of the frame/pole piece.
- The X04 had an Imperial measurement shaft.

Mashimas of course are made to metric measuements and are not made to
slot into the Tri-ang/Hornby mountings. Ditto all the other motors from
Sagami, Buhler, Mabushi, etc.

It's possible to mount an old X04 front bearing plate on the front of
many motors with a little basic kitchen table engineering, which takes
care of the front mounting and the shaft height.
Then you need an adaptor (brass tube) to bring the metric sized shaft
Tri-ang size. These should be available from Branchlines.
Lastly comes fixing the rear of the motor to the Tri-ang/Hornby chassis
which gets a bit complex if you think in terms of a brass strip
I started using bath calk silicon to both glue the motor in place and
provide sound deadening insulation. I did a few that way, some for
customers, some for myself. AFAIK none ever let go.
Removal is simply done by levering with a big screw-driver and
replacement by careful cleaning and recalking.


As a matter of interest, (daft) idea number 32, could you put a mashima
motor inside an X04 ?

Given the armature diameter of an X04 I would imagine a 12mm diameter
Sagami would fit.
However, from memory the armature diameter of a Sagami 12xx is 7mm which
is a major reduction from X04's 1/2"12.7mm.
As a rough rule of thumb, the potential torque of a motor is the square
of the armature diameter times the armature length.
There are other factors, such as the airgap between rotor and pole
piece, which in the Sagami is about half that of the X04/X05, winding
resistance etc.
Calculate those factors and you'll find the Sagami that will fit will
have about half the torque and twice the RPM, which won't go well with
the Hornby gears!

Anyway, don't think of it as a daft idea - I already tried it! =8^P

For my first real scratch-built loco (4-4-0) I used an X05 driving a
Tri-ang worm+gear followed by 3:1 reduction gears. The speed range was
excellent and slow speed running a revelation.
In MkII I put the driving axles in their own block, pivotted around the
worm gear axle so that I had equalization and much better current
With MkIII I put in a smaller motor (Ks) and running degenerated from
"superb" down to "abysmal".

The lesson I learned was "the larger diameter armature you can fit in
the better", although it took me several more locos to learn that "K's
motors were rubbish".
I finally got rid of my K's motors by using parts of three to make one
good(ish) one for a kit in which the owner wanted a K's motor fitted.


thanks, will save this info for one day.