Re: WVM again


"Matt B" <"matt.bourke"@nospam.london.com> wrote in message
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Budstaff wrote:
"Matt B" <"matt.bourke"@nospam.london.com> wrote in message
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spindrift wrote:
"I don't think he does pay to use the road"

He is paid to use the road.

He is subsidised by everyone else, even those who don't even have a
car.
Ah, that ill-informed unsupported assertion _again_. I assume it is
based on a CBA that, not only ignores the value of the benefits of
"motoring", but assigns congestion as a cost to "society" imposed by
motorists rather a cost to motorists caused by "society" not providing
an appropriate road infrastructure, and which conveniently ignores the
fact that since 1999 the insurance companies (i.e. premium paying
motorists) have had to pay the full health service costs of treating
casualties for which a motorist was liable, and similarly for fire
service costs.

In fact, given that about 10% of all tax revenue is raised from the
activity of "motoring", it is clear that our economy benefits very
substantially from motorists.

Disingenuous use of spurious logic.

You'll need to elaborate.

Weird comment to make on the first phrase of a post which does just that.

The fact that a journey may be of benefit to society, does not mean that
the cost of the journey to society cannot be meaningfully compared with
the revenue that society derives from the journey (i.e. the taxes
specific to that journey).

That is the point - you can't. Society derives more benefit from motor
journeys than simply the direct tax raised by the use of motor vehicles.

Yes you _can_. Below the line and qualitative, intangible benefits are
subjective and should be discounted.

As such motor vehicle journeys _are_ subsidised by the public purse,

No they aren't - by a long long way.

Your opinion only. If in the past it was not economic for me to eat foods
out of season by having them airfreighted from all over the world, if I
could afford to take the train to Manchester but not to drive there, if I
used local tradesmen and suppliers because the transport costs made remote
ones expensive, then the difference between then and now is a rebalancing of
subsidies.

as are bicycle journeys (but the impact on infrastructure by bicycle
journeys compared with motor vehicle journeys is vanishingly small).

The cost to society of bike journeys needs to include, not only the cost
of infrastructure provided solely for bikes, but the cost of having to
restrain motor traffic to facilitate cycling - such as the cost of
increased dead-time at traffic lights, the cost of the congestion created
by cycle facilities, etc.

Now you're changing your ground to suit your argument (as per usual).
Benefits which _you_ are ignoring include environmental, reduction in
congestion resulting from cycle use, decreased need for parking facilities,
benefit to the public's health, noise pollution reduction. You don't see
Amsterdam or Cambridge adopting policies to increase car use in order to
improve the quality of life, and cities like Beijing and Shanghai where the
move to motorised transport is occurring regardless are in a hell of a mess.

The benefits to society of economic activity are best compared against
the tax take as a whole (transport being just a small enabling part of
economic activity). That is why society is prepared to pay more out to
provide a transport infrastructure than it derives in revenue from
transport. Motor transport (be it road, rail, or air) is subsidised. Get
over it.

But it isn't. Imagine what a poorer place it would be with no cars and no
road transport (or air transport for that matter).

I'm not sure how the process of imagining a hypothetical dystopia is
supposed to make the subsidy of motor transport invisible. Nobody said ban
all cars (let alone 'ban all road transport'). Just recognise that society
cannot afford the increasing demands of the road lobby, and that the tab for
the subsidy to date will have to be picked up some time soon.



.

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