Re: electric bikes

"Alan Braggins" <armb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:slrne796i5.8qj.armb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Paul Murphy wrote:
"Alan Braggins" <armb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

What commercially available UK road legal electric assisted bikes offer
Lithium Polymer batteries as an option? How many of them make economic
sense compared to a moped or small motorbike?

The topic was discussed at the recent electric bike rally I attended. As

Presteigne? That did sound like fun.

It was, very much so and the weather was great too. I hope that next year
they manage to get a bit of steep hill on the circuit to sort out the sheep
from the goats as far as proper hill climbing ability.

this is state of the art technology I'm not aware of any avail in the UK
yet
(although there were 2 such equipped bikes at the rally - one homebuilt
with
the batteries attached by what looked to be insulation tape,

I hope he knows about lithium batteries pernickityness about charging
requirements and fire risk of getting it wrong....

It looked like they were wrapped in closed cell foam before the tape was
applied. The Lithium poly (Li PB) batteries linked to from Swizzbee's
website actually come with inbuilt protection circuitry meaning the charger
can be lighter and simpler. This was mentioned at Presteigne as well.

the other being a Swizzbee - battery details here:
http://www.swizzbee.com/swizzbee.php4?lang=english&site=newtech&sub=lipoly

The Swizzbee, unless I'm missing an option somewhere, is not UK road
legal as an assisted bike - at least they mention "unlimited speed"
several times on the web site, and the FAQ says it's a moped in Germany
and you need a moped test in Switzerland.

That would depend if the version sold here has a maximum 200 Watt nominal
power output and shuts its power assist off above 15 mph. There is a UK
dealer listed here:
http://www.swizzbee.com/swizzbee.php4?lang=english&site=dealers&sub=gb so I
suspect they can limit them for this market. All it would take is some
adjustment of the controller circuitry. The Swizzbee cyclist in Presteigne
came second and was very fast - he lapped me and almost all the rest of the
field several times! I'd like to see a Yellow Dream and a Swiss Flyer
entered next year - that would be interesting to see.

By "make economic sense compared to a moped or small motorbike" I'm unsure
what you are getting at.

You said yourself there is a law of diminishing returns when spending more
money to get a better bike.

To get a lighter bike there's a law of diminishing returns, I didn't say
that regarding a "better" bike though. Ultimately you can only spend so much
on a bike but given that Swizzbee have a link to fuel cell details also on
their website, that price could be very high indeed.You can add things to
them to make them better after all, even though the additional item may make
the bike weight a bit more, the ultimate effect is positive.

I believe if you need to spend the sort of money
the Swizzbee costs to get a bike which is a worthwhile improvement in
speed
and range on a non-powered bike, you would probably be better off with an
ICE moped. You might consider the silence and legal relaxedness of an EAPC
worth more though.

ICE, EAPC?

If price is the overriding factor then people would often be better off
relying on public transport (although some train ticket prices do
challenge
this).

Your local public transport must be better than mine. (And I used to
live somewhere 16 miles to the nearest station, with buses twice a week.
Now it's much better than that.)


It's only a matter of time until this sort of technology becomes
mainstream
at reasonable prices, just as conventional (non-poly) Li Ion has
superseded
Ni MH, Ni Cad and Lead Acid before that.

It may be just a matter of time, but it isn't necessarily just round
the corner either. We might even get cheap fuel cells first, refillable
in minutes at ex-petrol stations.

Hmm that would be nice for the consumer - not sure how the oil companies
would react though.

Lead acid hasn't been superceded. I saw a Powabyke user just this morning,
and, like every other Powabyke user I have seen, he seemed quite happy
sitting there not pedalling and travelling at slow commuter speed.
And if it works for him, why not? But for anyone happy to do some work
themselves, not so worthwhile.

Yes there was even a stand with "that type of bike" ahem ;-) at Presteigne.
By superseded (I should have used an s instead of the c) I meant "largely
replaced by" but where budget is an overriding factor, Lead Acid batteries
are still being offered up by some of the cheaper suppliers.

Even at a more expensive level, Kinetic's Heinzman uses NiCd and NiMH, no
Li-ion option. http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/power_pack.shtml

Bionx have a Li-ion option, but still offer NiMH (and their would-be UK
distributor is having trouble geting stock).

I think the BionX would be UK distributor chap was at Presteigne as well
observing the procedings and mingling, you missed a great weekend.

The Giant Suede is NiMH - did the Twist have a Li-ion option? (I think
the Revive did.)

There's currently not a Li Ion (or poly) option for either. Having said
that, in a couple of years if I still have my Twist, when the battery
eventually fails for good, if a Lithium Poly Giant supplied battery isn't an
option then, I may look to have my battery(s?) internally refurbished with
this technology and buy a new suitable charger. The big problem with Li Ion
and the Poly versions is that the cell voltages differ to standard old Ni MH
and Ni Cads so different numbers would be needed. They're also currently not
avail in the same physical shapes/sizes (the Twist uses 20 "D Size" tagged
Cells in series as far as I can tell). The supplier of the Twists power
supply, Panasonic, do make a Li Ion version of the power plant/battery
assembly but its 36 Volt rather than 24 Volt and supposedly not
interchangeable (the Electric Revive uses 36 V Panasonic parts as does the
Swiss Flyer).

Paul


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hazards of night cycling
    ... bad wiring and how the batteries have gone dead. ... one) sub-c batteries and built a new battery pack. ... I might try a dynamo one day, but the nearly $300 hub price (exclusive ... now take my light and move it from one bike to another rather than ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: GPS 76 very early comments
    ... 1- Garmin Bike mount. ... The bike mount is does not support the unit via its centre of gravity. ... GPS II+ but only with duracell batteries. ...
    (sci.geo.satellite-nav)
  • Re: CATEYE HL-EL320 AS A HEADLAMP
    ... the bike is otherwise stationary of backing up the dim glimmer of the ... batteries, it isn't onerous to carry four batteries for spare, in ... The Jute Rule: If you there isn't a flashing light front and rear on ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: Not old NiCD battery shows zero volts. Possibly revivable?
    ... :batteries to drop in charge enough for a cell to go completely dead. ... I looked into bike lights and they were expensive and every one I ... that one cell showed zero volts. ...
    (sci.chem.electrochem.battery)
  • Re: NTSB Probes Laptop Batteries in Jet Fire
    ... This is why it is illegal to ship more than a certain number of Li ... you could ship as many batteries as it is possible to ... abused contain no metallic Lithium whatsoever. ... is always someone who attempts to recover such a cell. ...
    (comp.sys.laptops)
Loading