Re: Prostrate cancer and cycling
- From: "michael adams" <mjadams25@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:07:29 -0000
"Tony Raven" <junk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:41sibuF1dtunvU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> michael adams wrote:
> >
> > Mere lists mean nothing and don't show anything.
> >
>
> No but the papers in the list do. You can always go an read them if you
> want - that's how citations work.
>
> > The very fact that you seem to think its possible to "prove"
> > absolutely anything by posting a list of headings of Papers on a
> > NewsGroups - without even having the courtesy of providing any URL's
> > - only two of which appear to support your hypothesis in any case,
> > shows how much credence anyone can place in your understanding of
> > what the papers actually demonstrated. Or didn't as the case may be.
>
> Only two?
>
> Int J Sports Med. 2005 Jan-Feb;26(1):79-81.
> "We hypothesize that neither a heavy and regular physical exercise nor
> the extensive and prolonged mechanical involvement of the prostate
> region by the bicycle riding have significant influence on release of
> both PSA and fPSA."
....
No that's the hypothsesis. What they set out to study.
Where are the results?
Do you actually have any clue what you're talking about ?
....
>
> Posting URL's is pointless.
No it isn't
I'd normally tinyurl them, but seeing as you can't even be bothered to
leave any links at all, I don;t think I'll bother.
....
http://arpa.allenpress.com/arpaonline/?request=get-document&doi=10.1043%2F0003-9985(2003)127%3C0345:EOMROT%3E2.0.CO%3B2
Effect of Marathon Running on Total and Free Serum Prostate-Specific
Antigen Concentrations
<quote>
In 1996, Oremek and Seiffert 19 and Safford and colleagues20 studied
the effects of bicycle riding on PSA levels. Both groups hypothesized
that use of a bicycle would directly stimulate the secretion of PSA
into the bloodstream. Oremek and Seiffert19 found an increase of PSA
concentrations by as much as 3-fold. The increase was age-dependent
and correlated with the PSA concentration before exercise; it was
evident in both the free and the complexed fractions of the molecule
</quote>
19. Oremek GM, Seiffert UB. Physical activity releases prostate-specific
antigen from the prostate gland into blood and increases serum PSA
concentrations. Clin Chem 1996;42:691-695. [PubMed Citation]
which is
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=8653893&dopt=Citation
<quote>
Clinical Chemistry Laboratories, Klinikum der Goethe-Universitat, Frankfurt
am Main, Germany.
Determination of prostate-specific antigen (PSA) is an established tool
in detecting prostate cancer. However, the effect of physical activity
on the PSA concentration in serum is controversial. We measured serum
concentrations of PSA and prostatic acid phosphatase (PAP) in 301 healthy
outpatients before and after they performed standardized exercise.
Immediately after 15 min of exercise on a bicycle ergometer, their
serum PSA concentrations increased by as much as threefold. The increase
was age dependent and correlated to the PSA concentration before exercise.
This increase was evident in both the free and complexed fractions of PSA.
The amount of PSA secreted into blood depends on the volume of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
prostate, whereas productivity of the prostate epithelium remains constant
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
or increases slightly with age. We present cutoff values for clinical use.
PAP was also increased, but to a lesser extent. The PSA and PAP secretion
mechanisms differ. Our data suggest that extensive physical activity
should be avoided before blood sampling for diagnostic purposes and,
in case of an increase, the PSA concentration should be controlled
after an exercise test.
<quote>
hint: the prostate grows larger as you get older.
Oh sorry, you knew that already.
And here's the NHS booklet conerning PSA screening -
which concens exercise in general prior to a screening.
http://www.cancerscreening.nhs.uk/prostate/prostate-booklet-text.pdf
3.1.2 PSA test practicalities
Before having a PSA test men should
NOT have:
exercised vigorously in the previous
48 hours
....
Or maybe the NHS don't have a clue either ? Whereas you clearly do.
> Most journals are only available on-line if
> you have a subscription. If you do its easy enough to look them up, if
> you don't then a URL won't help. But you can always go to a medical
> library to look them up.
....
Nonsense as demonstarted above
....
>
> You don't have to take them on trust. Go and read the papers yourself.
> That's how scientific citations work.
....
I just quoted one.
....
> Worked for a number of years with some of the world leaders in the
> treatment of prostate cancer and BPH.
>
....
So much so, that you can't even differentiate between a hypothesis
and the actual evidence presented - I quote
> "We hypothesize that neither a heavy and regular physical exercise "
I am impressed!
So what did you do, polish their windscreens ?
....
>
> >
> > The question under consideration, is what proportion of male
> > cyclists, on autopsy at any age, are shown as having had prostate
> > cancer at 50, and at what stage, as compared with the general male
> > population at 50 as subsequently examined on autopsy.
>
> Actually the question under consideration was your assertion "There is
> some anecdotal evidence, that regularly riding a bike
> more especially on a hard saddle (maybe) can elevate PSA readings
> over the lower threshold."
....
No it wasn't. I was citing the O.P's question about the relation
between prostate cancer and cycling. For which, as I pointed out
there is very little evidence.
The point being that in general cyclists are don't figure very highly
in experimental modelling. As they're not thought that significant
in statistical terms.
I did however produce some anecdotal evidence coupled with my
own personal experience, which again is supported by some studies
into the affect of exercise in general, and cycling in my own
particular case, immediately prior to giving a blood sample,
and the effect this may have on elevating PSA levels.
And I hope my own experience may be useful to other cyclists. And
their doctors. In not taking an isolated PSA reading, in the absence
of any other indicators as constituting a good reason for having a
biopsy before another PSA reading following midified behaviour.
That, if you could actually be bothered to read my first post, or
had the comprehension skills to understand what I wrote, was my
actual point.
Quite what your own precise motives for posting might be, can
only guessed at
....
>
> However, at age 50 approx one third of males will have evidence of
> prostate cancer cells and one half will have BPH. By age 80 its
> virtually 100% for cancer and 80% for BPH. I am not aware of any
> studies looking for an excess of prostate cancer in cyclists but it
> would have to be a pretty massive study to show one given the above
> prevalence.
....
Isn't the internet wonderful ?
Isn't it amazing what a person can learn in the space of just five
minutes!
You never know at this rate you might be performing brain surgery
by tomorrow.
....
>
> Now do you have any evidence to support your suggestion that there is an
> excess of prostate cancer in male cyclists or is it just speculation
> based on some cyclists getting prostate cancer?
.....
I gave precise reasons in my last post as to why such speculation
is pointless.
I can only assume that you really are as stupid as you make out.
"michael adams" <mjadams25@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:41se4lF1fjn8hU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> The question under consideration, is what proportion of male cyclists,
> on autopsy at any age, are shown as having had prostate cancer at 50,
> and at what stage, as compared with the general male population at 50
> as subsequently examined on autopsy.
> As cycling behaviour doesn't normally feature in medical records
> except possibly in repect of injuries, the difficulties in compliling
> such information shouldn't need too much explanation.
Maybe if you showed that passage to someone else, a grown-up perhaps
they could explain it all to you.
michael adams
....
>
> --
> Tony
>
> "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
> right."
> - Lord Hailsham
.
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