Re: 5 (6?) killed in crash

"D.M. Procida" wrote:
>
> Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote:
>
> > > Perhaps there are people who never in their lives done anything as
> > > stupid and potentially self-destructive as stuck a knife in a toaster,
> > > sniffed lighter fluid or glue, mixed electricity and water, climbed into
> > > inflatable dinghy with the wind going in the wrong direction, climbed
> > > into bed with the wrong person...
> >
> > With the exception of the last, none of these endanger other people.
>
> I can tell you've not had too many dealings with adolescents on glue...
>
> > > You are making pompus judgements about which dead teenagers are
> > > deserving of any feelings on your part.
> >
> > I am making judgments. I make judgments on a daily basis. If there was a
> > collision in which two people were killed, one of whom was drunk, and
> > entirely responsible for the incident, would you have the same sympathy
> > for both parties?
>
> I don't know what you mean by sympathy in this context. Some kids lost
> their lives, and some parents lost their children, and some children
> lost their brothers and sisters, and some teenagers lost their friends.
> It's a tragedy. Nobody wants or asks for your sympathy for any of them,
> but just enough humanity not to say "*** 'em" about any of them.

How's that a tragedy? They willingly put them selves in the situation
that caused them to die. Anyone they killed along the way could be
considered tragic.

> > > Finally, you don't need to wipe just the smugness from all over over
> > > your face, but the hypocrisy too. You're the one who has been happily
> > > mulling over an illegal street race that will involve "jumping at least
> > > one set of red lights". You wrote that about two weeks ago, so you don't
> > > even need to go back as far as your adolescence to find an example of
> > > stupidity stupid enough to cause carnage on the roads. (Since you can't
> > > even remember that far back, I somewhat doubt your self-assured
> > > recollection of a dangerous-stupidity-free youth.)
> >
> > I remember it very well. I happily mull over many things, including the
> > untimely demise of our great and esteemed leader. This is noticeably
> > different from committing the act. I frequently wish harm upon those who
> > endanger my life while I'm cycling, but I have never (And hopefully will
> > never!) moved beyond harsh words. Despite a flurry of opportunities,
> > I've yet to attempt this "race" (Time trial), mainly due to my objection
> > to jumping red lights (Also visible in posts passim if you wish to
> > search the record).
>
> Very good. But you have been considering it as something that might be
> worth doing. Suppose your suggestion had been met with a wave of
> enthusiasm; are you confident that your better sense would have
> prevailed, in the way that the better sense of just one of the five
> teenagers in that car might have prevailed to save the lives of them all
> before they even got in it?

It's a choice they made and so they should accept the risks.

> > To reiterate (Since you still seem to be attributing ideas to me that
> > are not mine); I have no problem with stupidity, except when it harms
> > others. If someone wishes to use a car to remove themselves from the
> > gene pool then they have my blessing. If drag others into it then the
> > situation changes. Can you really not see the difference?
>
> Those kids didn't "wish to remove themselves form the gene pool with a
> car". They probably didn't have much idea about what they were doing at
> all, like most people who do similarly stupid things (which is largely
> why people do stupid things). As a bunch of kids who did something
> really stupid, which could be expected to harm not only themselves but
> other people too, they deserve to be severely castigated for what they
> did. As a bunch of kids who died one night, they merit whatever it is
> that people who die young do - and it's not callousness. The two things
> are separate, and one can't change the other.

At that age I didn't steal cars, or get into stolen cars with other
people. I had the opportunity too but chose not too as the risks were
too high. As long as I can remember there's certain actives that I do
that greatly increase the risk of my death. I accept these but try and
avoid things which will kill or injure other people but not me.

James
.