Re: veggie oil powered car

James Annan wrote:
>
> Oh, that's handy for you, since it provides a convenient excuse for you
> to continue your "la-la-la I'm not listening" approach. "I wasn't clear
> about"..."it is not clear whether"..."earlier discussion seemed to
> indicate"...
>
> I suppose it is a useful reminder of your determined ignorance, but it
> has little bearing on the question itself.
>

So, when you've finished with the insults, what's the answer to the
question I posed?

I know you have already made your mind up on what the answer is but it's
not as clear cut as you want to present. Your Wiki reference claims
yields of 12-16x on farm fuel whatever that comprises. But take for
example the DfT review which cites two reports on energy balance from
Imperial College and Sheffield Hallam.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_024054.hcsp
"An unpublished report by Imperial College for DTI (Technology Status
Review and Carbon Abatement Potential of Renewable Transport Fuels (RTF)
in the UK. Draft report to DTI Renewable Energy Programme. Imperial
College, 2003.) has suggested that some pathways to biodiesel and
bioethanol have a negative or small positive energy ratio, as shown in
Table 7.1. An energy ratio of less than 1.0 suggests that more energy is
put into the process than is present in the biofuel product.

Table 7.1: Carbon balances for biofuel production
Process: Energy ratio
Biodiesel from oil seeds: 0.7 - 4.4
Biodiesel from FT processing of wood: 18.1 - 44.3
Bioethanol from grain: 0.9 - 2.6
Bioethanol from straw: 0.8 - 2.4
Bioethanol from sugar beet: 0.7 - 1.8

The ICCEPT report concludes that biodiesel and bioethanol routes are
generally energy intensive and significantly favourable energy balances
are only achieved when renewable fuels, mainly residues from the biomass
resource used, are used to produce energy for the process, and when
energy is allocated to co-products.

Another recent report for DTI by Sheffield Hallam University has
examined carbon and energy balances for a range of alternative UK
biofuel production routes. Their results for the process routes
addressed in our report are summarised in Table 7.2.

Table 7.2: Carbon balances for biofuel production (Sheffield Hallam 2003)

Process: Energy ratio
Biodiesel from oil seeds: 2.3
Bioethanol from acid hydrolysis of straw: 5.6
Bioethanol from wheat: 2.2
Bioethanol from sugar beet: 2.0

The two sets of carbon balances in Tables 7.1 and 7.2 are quite
different, reflecting differences in methodology and assumptions for the
two studies."

Before you start rubbishing it as biased because its by the DTI/DfT,
another report for the British Association for Bio Fuels and Oils by
Levington comes up with a figure of 1.78 for biodiesel and 1.11 for
bioethanol from rape seed before the energy from burning the straw was
included and also comments on the environmental impact of fertilisers
and other intensive farming methods needed to produce the yield.
http://www.biodiesel.co.uk/levington.htm

But feel free to continue hurling insults at those who ask questions
about your faiths.


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon
.

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