Re: 55 plate vectra 1.9cdti sri 150ps chip/remap
- From: jackhackettuk@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:39:55 -0700 (PDT)
On 14 Mar, 22:44, colinbl...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
hi
Hello there
Thinking of either a remap of one of the plug in modifications to
increase bhp and torque.
Okey dokey... most of my experience is with VAG TDIs, but the
principals are the same so I'll try and help below.
<deep breath>
Would appreciate any recomendations as there
seem to be a lot of companies out there offering this service. Some
say they are recommended by vauxhall sports club etc etc.
On the VectraC forum, there seems to be, (or rather, there seemed to
be the last time I spent any time over on there), a fair number of
posters who were happy with the extra performance they were getting
out of a CDTi 150 with a basic resistor tuning box, which they tend to
refer to as a 'Caterman box', apparently named after the poster who
first found the boxes on eBay rather than the company he was getting
them from.
You can pick these up for a VectraC like you have for around £50 to
£60 IIRC.
These boxes work by altering the values certain sensors in the engine
bay are reporting back to the ECU. In the case of VAG PD TDIs, the
ECU is being told that the fuel coming into the engine is much colder
than it actually is, and the ECU then alters the map to suit this
'colder' fuel.
The net result is more power, (and a bit more smoke under heavy
throttle conditions).
Drive flat out everywhere and the economy noticeably drops... drive
'normally', as in not full on throttle everywhere, and the economy
stays about the same, but the fuel computer will tell you you're doing
fantastic MPG. ;-)
However... these boxes can occasionally cause for the ECU to detect
'CEL' codes, (basically error codes, and especially if your car has
been inflicted with a 'DPF or 'Diesel Particle Filter' in the exhaust'
which incidentally may also die as a result), and you will normally
need to get the car hooked up to a diagnostics machine to clear these.
With VAG stuff, we use something that's relatively easy to get hold of
for this purpose, as in the VAG-COM suite - I'm not sure how freely
available any equivalent is for CDTi / Multijet engined cars, but
someone on the VectraC board should be able to advise you on this.
Earlier non-PD VAG TDIs didn't suffer with error codes being kicked in
by a tuning box, and had a variable resistor, so you could adjust the
box so the car created quite an impressive smoke screen under full
throttle. :-)
The other thing these boxes don't really do, is alter the shape of the
torque curve of your car - most standard VAG PD TDIs I've looked at
recently tend to have a 50 to 100 rpm wide spike of peak torque around
the 2,000rpm mark.
A tuning box keeps this spike in place, albeit with more torque
overall but with it tailing off to nearer the standard level at the
higher end of the rev range, hence why anything tuned in this way
tends to not have anything in the way of more top speed or power to
get up hills etc, if kept at higher revs.
Anyway... I've had stuff on the dyno which I've done a run in without
a resistor box and then with it, and they do increase available power.
And I've run enough PD TDIs in the last two years with and without
these boxes to determine that economy overall isn't affected in normal
driving conditions.
The alternative to the above (or living with it standard) is, as
you've mentioned above, getting it remapped.
This is normally done in one of three ways, with me having now
experienced the first two at first hand:
1. Flashing the ECU with a ready made third party map.
2. Fitting an inline piggyback unit to the factory ECU which then
allows you to set your specific car up, taking into account any other
modifcations it may have had done.
3. Fitting a completely new third party programmable ECU.
Option one, I recently had done to my Passat 1.9 TDI Sport (130),
which bar the remap, is totally standard.
I've seen peak BHP rise from 142bhp to 173bhp, and peak torque rise
from a spike of about 235 lb/ft to a much more consistent 273 lb/ft,
with the torque curve remaining consistently higher over the whole rev
range.
I suspect the dyno being used is slightly optimistic given some of the
results we've had for other stuff run on it, but discounting that, the
above figures are still good for before and after comparison purposes.
Overall I'm happy... I saw 50mpg last weekend cruising about the
countryside last weekend, it tends to average 47mpg on a motorway run
into London, and on a clear autobahn, it now nudges 140mph on the
clock - not bad for a barge which has now become affectionately known
as 'The Stormtrooper'. :-)
A remap like this would normally cost about £500, and the benefits are
that because all someone has done is plug a lead into the OBD port and
uploaded a new map to the ECU, it's virtually undetectable, at least
to the eye. That, and the same lead can be plugged back in to put the
car back to standard.
It seems like a lot of money given how quickly you can upload the map
onto an ECU... and it is, but you (and the dealer supplying the map),
are paying more for the time and development costs of the company that
supplied the map than anything else.
The second option, I saw being put into play this evening on an Audi
A3 1.9TDI (105). With the main focus on just fuelling tweaks, we saw
a before bhp figure of 115bhp rise up to 146bhp.
I didn't note the increase in torque when I looked at the maps on the
dyno screen, but it's fair to say it's a lot quicker now on the road
than it was standard, and over the next few days we'll be refining the
map even more to try to get the best of both worlds, as in more
economy when you're driving sensibly and more power when you're not.
We may well be trying this system on my Passat in the near future in
order to get a better idea of how it compares to the 'ready made' maps
we've used so far.
This option isn't that much dearer by comparison, apparently...
something which surprised me given the extra rolling road time
required to set it up.
The advantages of this system are that should you have done other mods
to the car, the map can be set up to take these into account right the
way across the rev range, which should then you getting the best out
of your car.
There is also an option to add in a software package that allows you
to store different maps on a PDA which you then upload as and when you
want to by way of Bluetooth - all good stuff, IMHO.
The main disadvantage to this system is it's a bit obvious, so not
ideal for cars still covered by warranty.
The third option is aimed more at the specialised end of the market
and I suspect the cost would be a bit prohibitive for something like
what either of us own, given the results that can be got from the
other methods I've mentioned above.
I may have an alternative option two I can advise on after the end of
the month, as I'm off to Italy to look at an alternative system for
remapping than the ones we're already using.
My vectra is quick enough but a little extra will help keep the saxo's
at bay
From what I've read, the CDTi 150 responds well to remapping, unlike
the gutless CDTi 120 inflicted Vectra I briefly owned last year - be
glad you didn't end up with one of those!
HTH
--
JackH
.
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