Re: VIC, repair on not?

On 23 Oct 2008 10:01:55 GMT, Adrian <toomany2cvs@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

T i m <news@xxxxxxxxxxxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

It will never be a "classic".

What has that got to do with it?

Simply, the market value will never be worth anything more than beer
money.

Ok and of minor interest, if I was thinking of selling it (and I'm
not).

One day, probably not too far away, you're going to have some very
hard thinking to do on the future of the vehicle - do you spend a fortune
getting the structure rebuilt on it, or do you knock it on the head?

As / when I get to that position that's what I'll do, just as I did
when the Sierra (I'd driven from new) was 23 years old. Ironically it
was still fully MOT'd etc when I broke it and I only did that because
I got the Rover (for £100) which was newer and more practical (fuel
economy mainly).

After you've done that, would you expect the insurance to pay out the
amount you've spent on it, or the value?

Have you been drinking again? ;-)

I think you have missed the point of why we have it

Nope.

and what we would like to think our insurance would do for us. [1]

And I think _you've_ missed the point of "commercial reality".

Translation: What "we" (many of us) would "like" (ie we know that's
not what we get) ...

but THAT Bellend is a heap of shit that you're emotionally attached to.
<shrug>

No. That perfectly functional and very suitable vehicle with full known
history is still just that.

Sure. But it's now a "perfectly functional" vehicle with damage that
exceeds the market value.

Irrelevant, I have no intention of selling it so just want it fixed.

Ok, for the hard of understanding ... someone borrows your wheelbarrow
and brings it back broken. You lent it to them on the understanding
they will 'do the right thing' if it get's lost, stolen or broken.
They hand you a fiver and say "sorry about breaking your wheelbarrow
but it was old and worn so here's a fiver, that should cover it". I
would guess (although from your answers so far I'm not putting any
money on it) you might say "erm, that was a perfectly functional
wheelbarrow so I'd like you to replace it with something similar
please". If that means buying a second hand one for a tenner (rather
than a new one for 15) then so be it, but a fiver is no use to you
when any second hand one is £10 to buy or cost to get yours repaired.

Which makes it a write-off, as far as the
insurance is concerned.

I know. However it isn't a write of AFA we are concerned, it's a car
with a small dent in it and had the insurance not got involved would
probably be fixed by now, by me, for little, end of.

The insurance will pay out the market value, and
it'll be flagged as a CatC write-off. If you want to get it back on the
road, you'll have some fairly straightforward hoops to jump through.

I know. And (as has been mentioned) hoops probably not supposed to
apply to our situation. I and they (probably) know this VIC is going
to be pointless, assuming they actually do any more than look at it
from across their yard especially.

That's what you asked them to do when you bought the insurance, and
that's the basis on which they set the premium.

I know. What I didn't know was how little they were actually going to
offer me to replace it or put towards repairing it. I can't remember
them reducing the premium over the years to reflect their downward
'book price' either?

Sentimental value is
_irrelevant_ to anybody but you.

I'm not sure where you got that idea from but it wasn't me. I
mentioned knowing it's full history because that has a value (or
people wouldn't be interested in something having a FSH). In the real
world "It's better the devil you know" and with cars that is (in the
real world) especially true. Knowing you aren't buying someone else's
problems etc. The cars we have bought cheap were really / actually
cheap because they have lasted the time with little extra expenditure.
Buying a car at even market value is no clue of hidden issues. Buying
it off your (say, good / trusted) friend or family means you get the
whole (known) story. Well, for us anyway, seems like you are saying
your family would shaft you Adrian (and probably why you are so
bitter)! ;-)

If you want that covered, by all means
do some ringing around - somebody may offer it - but don't expect the
policy to be as cheap as a normal policy.

I know. Ere, just out of interest, when the market get's depressed and
car values plummet, do they re-adjust the premiums down to suit (mid
term)? I insured the thing for say £500 when it was very difficult to
get anything like that for that sorta money. Now it's worth less but I
didn't get a rebate on my premium to reflect that (and car values
generally go down in any case). [1]

I assume you must think we went out looking for that particular car or
summat

Somebody must have done, somewhere down the line.

Yes, in this case my Dad, but my point was we didn't. Similarly my
latest motorbike (GPz550) was what a mate across the road happened to
be getting rid of. Our daughters first real motorbike, post A2 test
looks like it's going to be what was my, them my mates MZ 251 Saxon
Tour. Her scooter was bought off my mate. Her KA is the first real
unknown quantity other than it had ALL the docs, they were up to date
and the service book was stamped up to 1500 miles ago. Three
'mechanics' drove it pre us buying it getting a general feeling that
it had been looked after and had a genuine reason for sale. That and
the personal history behind the reason for sale was also taken into
account, along with minor details like the PO forwarding the
instruction book for the radio to us post final transfer (a trader
mate took it in part ex).

Or is it just possible they 'came along', probably quite cheap

Odd. I thought it'd been in your family since new. I don't recall new
cars ever just "coming along" in my family.

Bad mates *and* family then! ;-)

People have always gone out
to look for them and handed over money for them.

Shame, ours have all been known pre purchase and delivered. ;-)

Sierra, Ex Co car bought off them at 10 years old for 25 quid and run
for next to nowt for another 13.

Astra bought off Niece 5 years ago for £350 and still running fine
with little attention.

Rover bought off mate 5 years ago for £100 and still running fine with
little attention.

Why should every other insurance policy holder pay for that?

Because I guess I pay for other peoples pointless shit cars that would
provide less functionality and with less known history than this one
has?

But you don't pay for their sentimental value - only their market value -
and that's what their premiums are set by, the value of the vehicle and
driver risk...

I know. But you were asking why I should expect others to carry the
cheap repair of some good functional transport. I'm not, I have paid
out far more in premiums over the 35 years I've been driving than the
claim cost of all our vehicles, ever. So because I have never written
off anything 'valuable' I haven't cost the system anything.

And what about the other 9 years (that they count) I haven't claimed or
the several years before that?

<shrug> What about 'em?

See above.

You don't work in the insurance game do you perchance? ;-)

No, but I do live in the real world. You ought to visit some time.

Yes, a real world with a fcuked Insurance system re motor vehicles.
Trust me, in this world I'm not the first person to suggest that you
know?

[1] I bought an old Compaq laptop for about 75 quid. Bought it a new
battery (£20) and it was a nice little 'tool'. I didn't care what anyone
else thought of Compaq or that model, I liked it and it worked for me.
It got knocked off the sofa whilst in it's padded carry bag

Clumsy sod... <g>

And I saw it roll off in slow motion ... :-(

As an experiment I phoned the InsCo and told them what happened. They
gave me a new laptop, probably worth 'on the market' 5 x the old one. No
questions, no hassles, because that's what my policy said they would do

And you were paying for that "new for old" cover in the premium. It's the
basis on which the premium had been set.

Yes, and a premium many hundred times LESS than the value of stuff
covered, not equal or several times more than?

I'll bet you'd moan like buggery at the level a car insurance premium
would have to be to include that.

No, I would like to see a system that is real world, like I think you
will find exists in many other countries where they don't
automatically use new parts to repair an old car?

The cost of the repair of our car had no bearing on the fact it was
repaired or not. It was the fact that it was old and 'worthless' (in
their opinion). Why did they have to write it off? Why did THEY
determine the cost of the repair would exceed X value when I could
have / can / will repair it for a fraction of that?

If they had said "needs a replacement wing painting and fitting, £374"
then it *should not* have been written off as *they* declared the car
to be worth £375?

It's even worse with motorbikes when a minor scratches on an exhaust
or fairing (often caused by the rider being a clumsy prat and chucking
the thing down the road him/her self) means replacing £1000 worth of
parts or hugely expensive paintwork repairs?

All I was hoping for was a fair solution to our situation. Ok, what
they actually paid us out will more than cover the actual cost of the
repair, the VIC test and probably the increase in premium (the 9 years
NCB was protected). I just wish they had sorted out the repair
themselves.

Cheers, T i m

[1] I know there are many other aspects that come to bear re insurance
costs. Like, the more safety stuff they put in cars the more people
that survive, and live to claim? At the same time the more expensive
the cars are to repair and the less repairable they become (so even
more get written off).
.

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