Re: Alternatives to those pre insulated *** joints

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article <96CUi.125$pg.23@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Chris Whelan <cawhelan@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article <uFhUi.10$9Y3.0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Chris Whelan
<cawhelan@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
All the aftermarket work I've seen tends to use pre-insulated crimp
types which I hate. If you mean OE looms there's very little
soldered on those. Sometimes where several earths are grouped
together.

I'm not sure what your definition of aftermarket is; all main dealer
electrical work I have seen has been soldered.

What main dealer work would you be talking about?

Recall alterations, fault repair to sensor connectors - pretty much
everything. All soldered.

If one connection on an original loom is faulty I'd say there will be
others quickly following it - given they are *all* crimped on manufacture.
And all of a similar design. Any major alterations would consist of using
a new supplied loom or part loom - dealers rarely have qualified auto
electricians on call and rely on fitters. If you were replacing a
faulty/damaged plug with a new one of the same design the connectors will
be crimp types so should be crimped - not soldered. And crimped with the
correct tool. Which will give OE results.

Nope! Repair kits for damaged connectors supplied by manufacturers come with
short fly leads ready for connection to the original loom. The fly lead is
crimped to the connector; it is joined to the existing loom by soldering.

It often happens that one connector becomes faulty. The most common is
probably the connection to the heater fan speed resistor pack. These often
burn out, usually as a result of failure to replace the pollen filter, and
destroy the loom connector. A repair kit is then used.

Why would a whole loom section need to be replaced if just one connector is
faulty?

Because it is so common to replace electrical parts on cars now, all motor
vehicle technician training includes basic electrical skills - at least VAG
and Ford does.


If the AA use any means to make an electrical joint that is not
soldered, they ask the customer to sign a temporary repair disclaimer
form.

Good grief. I've yet to see an example of soldering on maker's looms.

One wouldn't assume that the maker would need to do a repair, surely?
This is what is being discussed.

An AA van can't carry all the correct connectors as used in OE looms. But
they can carry ones suitable for repairing damaged wiring. And these
needn't be identical to OE ones. I certainly wouldn't expect a roadside
repair of this nature to be permanent so those pre-insulated types would
do as a temporary measure. Soldering simply isn't possible under all
conditions. Like in a high wind. Crimping is.

I can assure you 100% that the most common way for an AA patrol to repair a
damaged electrical connection is soldering. I'm typing this with a patrol
looking over my shoulder, and laughing...

There are actually a fair number of soldered "pigtail" joints on every
recent Ford I've looked at however. Haynes actually indicates them on
the wiring diagrams.

Yes - it is common where say earths are grouped together. But not at any
other connector. They are all crimped.

So any aftermarket additions should be using correctly crimped
connectors of a similar type.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

We are discussing repair situations or alterations where for example the
connector at the end of a section of loom needs replacing. There won't
have been a joint there originally, so it would be impossible to use "a
similar type."

You can replace even a multiplug with a new one of the correct type. Or
even just the damaged 'pins'. Anything else is just a temporary bodge.

You *can*. Main dealers, and the AA, generally *don't*!

When a connector has been damaged, it is usually the case that overheating
has occurred. This will usually be caused by a high resistance at the
interface between a pin and its socket. The overheated connection damages
the loom locally. That is why the repair kit that I have described is a
much better method than just replacing the connector.

I'm pretty sure no one is advocating soldering wires directly to an item
that originally had a plug in connection!

The correct crimping tool takes up no more room on a van than a
soldering iron and is much more practical at the roadside.

Much more difficult to keep a decent stock of crimps than it is to carry
a reel of solder however...

Trying to solder to an old corroded and damaged 'pin' or whatever at the
roadside is simply a bodge. A main dealer should replace the pin or
complete connector using the same method as OE - ie crimping. It simply
needs a special tool - like many other special tools a main dealer should
have. And requires less skill than soldering. So no bad thing given the
average dealer.

Dave, you are missing the point here I think!

I'm not suggesting for a minute that a repair would be carried out by
soldering directly to a pin that was designed to be crimped.

My points above should clarify how these repairs are commonly carried out.

I'm with you 100% on the desirability of properly applied crimps versus
soldered joints, Dave. 40 years of experience in the electrical industry
taught me that :-)

And yet you seem happy with dealers messing around with soldering irons?
Not that I've ever seen it. I'm not happy with any dealer touching car
wiring - other than plugging in a new component. Most simply haven't the
skills.

Where did I say that? I'm merely telling you what happens at the roadside
with the AA, and at many main dealers. I've not expressed an opinion in
this thread, except to say that either crimping or soldering would be OK
for the OP if done properly.

Unfortunately, the availability of poor quality crimps and tooling, and
the lack of proper skills in their use has given them a bad name in the
car industry.

That's because the cheapskates want to use those universal pre-insulated
types. Even although non insulated ones are readily available - it's all I
use as an amateur.

Like everything else, pre-insulated crimps are perfectly satisfactory if
used properly. I've used literally tens of thousands of them as a
professional!

None of this helps the poor OP, who just wanted to do a decent job
however!

Chris

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