Re: Goose splits, especially the Canadas


Malcolm wrote:
> In article <1135887907.675464.273180@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> Bobby <bobby2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >
> >I have to say that I have very mixed views of this whole business of
> >splitting species. The geese are close to my heart but I suppose it
> >applies to many other species as well. I suppose from a scientific
> >point of view the justification for splitting is that if you can prove
> >that, for example, an island population of geese is actually a seperate
> >species rather than simply a race, you have a better chance of
> >protecting the population. Not sure if that's correct, but it sounds
> >like it might be! Perhaps a scientist could confirm or deny this.
> >
> There are a number of subspecies which are protected, e.g. Greenland
> Whitefront, when other species, e.g. Russian Whitefront, are not.

So from a scientific point of view, are there any benefits to a species
being split?

>
> >So, we have a bird in south west Lancs at the moment that was
> >originally identified as a Richardson's (i.e. hutchinsii = Lesser), was
> >later re-identified as Todd's (not sure which scientific name but =
> >Greater) and has today appeared on Bird guides as Lesser Canada Goose!
> >What does that mean??? Are they saying it is the old Lesser i.e.
> >parvipes, or is it the new Lesser i.e. hutchinsii, leucopareia, minima
> >or taverneri. Being the professional setup that they are, I can only
> >conlcude they mean it is the latter. Surely they wouldn't use an old
> >discredited name would they?? Who can say? I suspect it to be a
> >Pale-bellied Brent.
> >
> LOL!
>
> They definitely mean the "new" Lesser.

I would hope so, but I'm not so sure. If they do mean "new" Lesser,
then it's gone from Richardson's (Lesser) to Todds (Greater) to an
undefined Lesser (Lesser) in about two weeks! There are photos on
Surfbirds which to me clearly rule out Richardson's. What a mess!

I was prompted to start this thread following a "debate" with an
experienced birder friend today, who claims that all references to
Lesser Canada Goose refer to parvipes. I tried to explain that
according to the BOU, the two species are Greater and Lesser, and that
parvipes is now classed as Greater, but he wouldn't have it, insisting
that all "Lessers" are now called by their various names, such as
Richardson's, and that the only Lesser is parvipes. I say again, what a
mess.

Regarding Pale-bellied Brent, I went out to Hilbre Island two days ago,
and had fantastic views of the ever increasing wintering population of
100 Pale-bellied Brents, with just one Dark-bellied. These birds have
been increasing over the past few years, and Hilbre is just a superb
place to see them. This is the largest flock of Pale-bellied birds I
have ever seen, apart from the Lindisfarne birds, which probably come
from a different population (I assume the Hilbre birds come from
Greenland, whereas the Lindisfarne birds come from Spitzbergen I
think).

>
> >Thank goodness we can dismiss them all as escapes anyway, because as
> >Malcolm knows, the only true wild Canadas are on Islay!
> >
> Are they??

Probably not, but they look and feel better on Islay! I thought that a
ringed bird had been seen on Islay, or am I thinking of Ireland?


>
> I resist is putting names to the vagrant, probably wild, Canadas here.
> For me, they call into nine categories, based on being one of: large,
> medium and small, combined with: dark, medium and pale. The Americans
> can't put subspecific names to most of the Canadas they see, so who are
> we to try with single, out of context, birds?

Agreed. I love geese, and it doesn't bother me if a Canada Goose is a
race or a seperate species. When I visited Islay a few years back,
obviously I wanted to see the huge flocks of geese, but Canada was one
of my main target species, because i wanted to see a probably wild
Canada, and it didn't matter if it was only a race. Same when I went to
Lindisfarne, I wanted to see Pale -bellied Brents from a population I
had never seen before.

I find it quite amusing that many of my birding friends, who sneered at
my efforts to see the various populations and races, are now dashing
about all over the country, tieing themselves up in knots with dubious
identifications to see the same birds that I saw years ago!

Anyway, thanks a lot Malcolm

B

.

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