Re: CD-player died, need advice

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Rob" <patchoulianremovethis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:juCdnUUve5KIvPXanZ2dnUVZ8uSdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxx
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Rob" <patchoulianremovethis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:TdadnWZy7uTbp_vaRVnyhQA@xxxxxxxxx
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Martin "Schöön"" <martin.schoon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:87sl22xx20.fsf@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Gentlemen,

I replaced the driving belt of my trusted old Thorens TD166
this week and today I find the CD-player has become so
upset by this it refuses to play or even acknowledge the
existence of the CDs I feed it.

The CD player is a Cambridge Audio thing (everything
important inside is labeled Sony) about five years
old (the Thorens is 25 years old).

So, even though the Thorens 166 works just fine and
I have a number of LPs to play I am in the market
for a CD-player.

I don't care much for fancy brand names and exotic
design but I want good sound reproduction. (and
reliability).

Any recommendations?
Second hand? (New models are not always better)
DVD-players?
**Forget second hand, unless you are prepared to throw a new laser in a decent exotic machine. IMO, the best value around today is the Harman Kardon HD970. Brilliant machine for not too much cash. It'll even play MP3s.

Trevor Wilson
It's well over 200UKP. Why does it sound better than a Sony £30 DVD player?
**Send me the schematic of your 30 Squid Sony and I'll tell you. The HK has a number of significant technical details which, IMO, make it sound better than all the cheap players (and most of the expensive ones) I've ever heard.

Can't help with that I'm afraid. The manual just has a list of specs, rather than components (it's a xd-ax10, badged Aiwa). From what I gather (from this NG):

**Then, without a schematic, it is impossible for me to highlight what problems the Sony may have (or not). Specs do not tell the whole story.


I would agree - many wouldn't, I suspect ('if it can't be measured it either doesn't exist or it doesn't matter'). And then there's the issue of the accuracy of manufacturer's data.

1. DACs are a 'done deal', and have been for about 10 years - differences such as they are are inaudible;

**Not IME.


OK - I don't know.

2. Transports are transports - it's not possible to have an audio signature, they work or they don't;

**I'd be inclined to agree with that.


OK - just to reaffirm, my statement was based on what I've read on this NG.

3. Analogue amplification has to be mightily wrong to create difference, and it's so simple and cheap it has no effect in practice.

**Wrong. There are a raft of issues with analogue stages in CD players, where mistakes are often made. Here's a few things I've found wrong with cheap players:


Again - this has been pretty well covered here, and my statement was a summary of what I've read.

* Cheap, crappy OP amps used in the critical output stages. I've even found 4558-class OP amps used. These date from the late 1970s and are vastly inferior to the 5532/4 - LM833 OP amps used in the first generation Sony and Philips machines. The cost difference is minor.
* High value series resistance in the output of the analogue section.
* Poorly implemented muting transistors, which short output to ground. A relay is a much better idea. And costs marginally more.
* The use of LM78XX and LM79XX regulators, instead of the vastly superior LM317/LM337 regulators. Again, the cost difference in in the order of a few cents.
* Poor quality filters (not so much of a problem nowadays).


All sounds reasonable to me - except, I'm afraid, I couldn't possibly *begin* to appraise any of it!

OTOH, if I believe what I read in the mags, differences are either presented as obvious, or technically valid (an article on jitter, for example, laid claims IIRC). Which leads me to ...

I thought that all named CDPs sound identical nowadays?!
**I suggest you do some listening. You may well be in for a shock.

I have. I *think* I can detect difference, but I've never been able to reliably distinguish between digital sources using the same material, and I certainly can't state whether one's better than t'other.

**You've compared the HK to a cheapo Sony?


No - I gave up when I couldn't reliably distinguish between a Marantz KI 500UKP CDP and the cheap DVD player. I've had several CDPs over the years, although I was a late adopter - 1998.

Your point is, I suppose, that I should listen to the HK if i'm at all serious about CD sound quality. Well, I don't think I'm that bothered at the moment, although I'll certainly bear your points in mind should my interest become reawakened. FYI I use this in my main system ATM:

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/2359

but as I say, I rarely play CDs, and it goes without saying I couldn't hear any difference between that and the AX10 ;-)

To this end, most of my digital music is on HD/lossless compression, and plays through a Mac Mini. I've given away about 500 CDs, and kept about 200 for some reason, probably sentimental. I use lossless compression because I can hear the effects of mp3 compression - not always objectionable, although I find the sound a little 'thin'.

The conclusion I've come to - that if there is a difference it doesn't matter - could be a result of mid-fi speakers (Castle and Dynaudio), room acoustics, my hearing or some psychological factor. Or that CDPs (and indeed digital playback) are sufficiently indistinguishable.

FWIW, if I did find the HK sounded better, my guess would be that something was going on in the analogue amplification stage.

**That would be a reasonable assumption. HK have clearly put a lot of effort into building a quality analogue section in that machine.


OK.

Rob
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Playing DVD
    ... Don't rely on how autoplay does or doesn't work to decide DVDs won't play. ... Run the player software manually and try to play a DVD with it. ... sound card drivers. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Playing DVD
    ... Don't rely on how autoplay does or doesn't work to decide DVDs won't play. ... Run the player software manually and try to play a DVD with it. ... sound card drivers. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: /dev/cdrom question
    ... there are two ways of playing audio CDs. ... > the volume bar on the player itself, one being the volume icon in the tray ... > different option I can access from the sound and video menu. ... Can you play sound files on the hard disk? ...
    (Fedora)
  • Re: Toshiba to drop HD-DVD - almost official
    ... proper player that can play all BluRays? ... And while I'm sure not a Sony fan, ... I would hope to see a carousel that can play ... library with my software to mount disks, ...
    (alt.tv.tech.hdtv)
  • Re: compress mp3s?
    ... Of course that's very true but since my player does play MP3's and the sound ... Some CD/DVD playersWILL play mp3s, ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)