Re: Do amplifiers sound different?uad


Roderick Stewart wrote:
In article <1139789956.363862.313170@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Andre
Jute wrote:
The present position is that we take someone's word for the THD and IMD
numbers, we take it once for the entire design and many manufacturing
runs of that particular amp, we make a few spotchecks (sometimes, more
often not), most people don't know how to take the measurements. Thus
this discredited system which predicts nothing hangs on the word of
engineers, often a single engineer. It is equally valid when addingg
another system of predictive judgement, this one based on culture, to
have qualified persons of cultivated taste who have heard the
orchestras, who have been in the halls, who have heard the musicians
play the music in the venue, make the judgement once on behalf of
everyone else. The method is the same; all that differs is that a
different class of person, one of culture rather than a technician, now
makes the call.

I'm tired of this superior attitude towards engineers.

Forgive me, Rod, but have you actually read what I wrote in the
paragraph you quote?

***I express no superior attitude to engineers anywhere in the text you
quote.*** No superior attitude in that text, none, zilch, nechevo,
zero. If you wish to insist, prove it by a quotation from the text
above.

What I say is that a measure held up as predictive by engineers is
thought to have failed by a large part of the consumers whose
satisfaction with hardware the predictive measure presumes to predict.
I suggest an additional measure and then compare the trust put in
professional engineers with the trust my measure will require to be put
in cultural professionals.

What you're implying in effect is that the works and opinions and
orthodoxies of engineers are beyond question by anyone else and should
be taken on faith.

That's bullshit, and you know it.

The rest of your script is smoke to cover up the fundamental
irrationality of your dumb claim that engineers are beyond questioning
by anyone else. I answer it in detail only to illuminate the incredible
stupidity of your basic assumption.

Who do you think
invents, designs, builds and maintains the equipment without which
broadcasting and home audio would not exist at all?

I know some of those people and respect them, not least for their
culture. That goes without saying. What you're demanding is that the
respect earned by talented technical professionals be extended without
question to the idiots who posture on these conferences. The answer is
no, never. Let them earn their own respect. Furthermore, irrationality
in your argument won't earn you any respect either.

What on earth makes
you think that possession of technical knowledge puts a person into a
different "class" (your choice of word), where they are devoid of
"culture" (your choice again)?

Point to the text where I said that.

On the contrary, it is easy to prove that certain barbarians well known
to us, who were educated as engineers, repeatedly, daily, proudly tell
us that they consider themselves in a different class and entirely
beyond culture. How often have you seen " Music is Art - Audio is
Engineering". Before you reproach me for what I didn't say, how many
times have you reproached Pinkerton for what he says every day? Please
provide a count and point to a reference where we can audit your count.

Oh, by the way, not only didn't I say what you accuse me of saying...

*** I said exactly the opposite***

.... that I know many cultured engineers, in this same thread, in
messages which appeared on the newsgroup hours before you wrote your
cramped, ill-informed, slanted, wrongheaded reply.

What do you imagine guides these
"uncultured" people in their decisions when they are designing the
equipment that is used by everybody else,

Eh? Why should I justify their decisions to you? If you wish to know,
ask them. I have. Most of those I talked to agree with what I actually
think, rather than what you are pretending to believe I think. Some of
them formed my opinions.

including those who consider
themselves "cultured" but would not know where to begin? Try designing the
equipment for a broadcasting or recording system on the basis of "culture"
but using no technical knowledge and see how far you get.

Again, try reading what I said in the paragraph you quote. Where did I
say the "cultured" (which you somehow project as a separate class, like
intellectuals, which seems to me a highly questionable classification)
*should* design equipment?

Why, as you seem to believe, shouldn't the engineers who design such
systems, be cultured as well as technically proficiient? One would
assume that they went into that line of work not only to earn a salary
but because they were interesting in the full panoply of broadcasting
and recording, which must include cultural aspirations and interests.

Rod.

Jumped-up techies who deliberately misinterpret what I say, or put
words in my mouth that I didn't speak, piss me off. I'm quite capable
of speaking for my myself, if you don't mind.

The regular regurgitators of predigested opinions who responded to your
post (Plowman, Pearce, etc) apparently have such short attention spans
that they didn't notice that my paragraph you quote says something
entirely different from what you claim. One has to wonder whether, on
this evidence, they have the brains to discern that your claim that
engineers should be beyond question, is ludicrous even in your own
terms.

Andre Jute

.

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