Re: Do we really need a high speed railway?

On 24 Oct, 13:13, Oliver Keating <oli...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The current rail service to Birmingham/Manchester is already frequent
and fast. Cutting Manchester journey time to under 2 hours is unlikely
to affect significant modal shift, a lot of the air traffic results
from connecting flights at Heathrow.

What about all those flights to Standstead, Luton and Gatwick? I
doubt they are connecting with long haul out of Heathrow.

The scope for shift from private-
to-public transport modes is limited, simply put people who intend
driving are unlikely to switch to a train.

Except for all the car drivers who have switched to the new services
on HS1.

The other arguement for building a new line is capacity constraints on
the WCML. However, little mention is made of the possibility of
updating existing infrastructure. This could be achieved by longer
trains, double length for example

We've only just finished haemorraging cash trying to upgrate the WCML,
and to allow for longer than 11 car pendolinos would require very
expensive infractructure work. Comparing the cost of the WCML upgrade
with the cost of HS1 indicates that the new-build high speed line is
the cheaper option.

While the UK does not achieve the glamorous headline top speeds on the
continent, the reality is point-to-point average speeds are comparable
to those achieved in Italy and Germany, despite the many billions of
euros that have been spent on those networks. Upgrading the WCML, ECML
and GWML to 140mph is feasable with ETRMS and the upcoming IEXP
program.

If you increase the speed on existing lines, you inevitably reduce
capacity as braking distances increase. If you make the services
faster, you will attract more people, but the trains are already
full. You will get a small increase in capacity by allowing trains to
make more journeys per day, but the fact is that the railways lines we
have are basically full, and the huge cost of the WCML upgrade
suggests that it is cheaper to achieve capacity increases by building
a new line rather than upgrading an old one.

It seems to me that a lot of the "conventional" solutions have been
ignored in favour of the more glamorous "hi tech" answers.

The reason the UK has such good average speeds without flashy high
speed lines is because the "conventional" solutions have been done.
The trouble is, the conventional approaches that offer a big
improvement for a low cost have already been done, and the
improvements that remain possible are increasingly the high cost
options. Twice we've tried to make the jump from 125mph to 140mph,
and twice we've failed because the cost proved too high for the
potential benefits.

If you're going to go from a two track railway to a four track
railway, the obvious question is whether it's better to put the extra
two tracks next to the old ones that were laid out for under powered
40mph steam trains in the Railway Mania of the 1840s, or on a modern
allignment appropriate to the performance of modern traction, with
modern signalling technology. The second option is clearly the better
option operationally, and the price comparisson of WCML with HS1
suggests that economically it is also better. This approach need not
be high speed as such, for example the new line between Olten and Bern
in Switzerland is only a 200km/h line, although it employs modern
signalling systems and is laid out according to the performance of
21st centruy trains rather than 19th.

Robin
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Chinese HS Trains to run at 300km/h rather than 350km/h
    ... I wonder though whether the real reason is cost. ... But notice how the Chinese dwell on "safety". ... are not sure that the trains are stable at that speed. ... The Chinese are running them at higher speeds, and the manufacturers are slightly concerned about this, as it is outside the limits they were designed for, and so asking for trouble. ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: Chinese HS Trains to run at 300km/h rather than 350km/h
    ... I wonder though whether the real reason is cost. ... But notice how the Chinese dwell on "safety". ... are not sure that the trains are stable at that speed. ... trains above speeds of 330 kilometers an hour poses safety concerns ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: Elaine Holt heading for East Anglia?
    ... Even at the rather more sensible (c/f ECML or WCML) speeds these ... trains run at, these are rather longer journeys than most ECML or WCML ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: To pfi or not to pfi - tflats the question
    ... for this the supplier builds two or three more trains than are needed ... to gain for pushing for as many trains as he can build to meet the contractual requirements for the number of trains in service as the cost will be covered by the leasing payments. ... tendency to select a 'preferred bidder' and drop the other contestants, ... How can the purchaser have any idea whether the ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: Dr. Beeching
    ... everything on the railway cost double. ... But trains don't need to be TOC specific. ... Airlines do this all the time. ... Why should the taxpayer pick up the cost? ...
    (uk.railway)