Re: Valid Routing Query

On 18 July, 13:50, Paul Harley <pwhar...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:55:49, embers25 <embers2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

At this point I gave up as the train was due and bought
another ticket to Exeter which incidentally I had to stand on as it
was overcrowded and the guard never even checked tickets.

Were you challenged on the FGW Exeter-Slough leg?

Didn't go beyond Salisbury afraid of being penalty fared until I had
ATOC confirmation. Ended up buying a ticket to Pinhoe from there and
just returned on that.
Below is the unbelievably wrong response from ATOC.

"Thank you for your enquiry.
The route you describe for a journey from Woking to Slough route
Reading not London is not a permitted route. Tickets to Yeovil,
Exeter, Bristol or Swindon would be much higher than the cost of your
ticket to Slough. Having looked at the Routeing Guide, the route is
Woking to Clapham Junction, Clapham Junction to Reading and Reading to
Slough. Reading is the ‘intercept point’ on both maps.
I can confirm that on your off peak return you are permitted an
overnight break on the outward leg of your journey as long as you
begin your journey before 12noon the following day."

My rather frustrated response was as follows:

"Thankyou for your swift response, however based on the online routing
guide on your own website I have not violated any conditions. Whilst
I agree that Reading is ONE intercept point so are Bath, Bristol and
Exeter and I draw your attention to your own document "The National
Routing Guide in Detail" which states:


"Many journeys cannot be traced on a single map and need linking with
other maps to allow a complete tracing. Sheffield to Inverness has a
route CE+ER which means use map CE and then map ER. You may only trace
journeys across maps at the points where they touch. CE and ER touch
at Nottingham, Grimsby, Doncaster, Wakefield, Leeds, York, Hull, Goole
and Selby so one of those locations must be in the journey."


This along with several other places in your own instructions says
that I can trace journeys across any of the intercept points. This
fact is used in all your examples. In addition because I am
travelling from routing point to routing point I have to compare
against no other fares and the fare check rule is not violated as you
claim it is because and I quote "Even if another intermediate fare (A–
F) is higher than the fare for the whole journey, it does not forbid
the route." Just becuase fares to Exeter are more expensive is
irrelevant as Exeter is not a routing point for my trip it is merely a
map link point I travel through and you NEVER compare map link points
unless they are a routing point for your chosen trip which they are
not in my case as my ONLY routing points are SLOUGH and WOKING.
To prove this point I will use your own example online of a Plymouth
to Cardiff Fare "National Routing Guide in Detail page F15". The Off
Peak Day Single is £47.00 yet Plymouth to Chepstow is £47.70 Off Peak
Day Single and using your incorrect interpretation of your own guide
that means I cannot travel via chepstow however the guide correctly
says that I can as the Chepstow fare (like the Exeter one in my case
is an irrelevant intermedaite fare). I know this is a close
difference (yet still enough) but I could come up with hundreds of
cases where your argument about intermediate points being higher fares
is disproved.
Trust me I have checked with numerous people online and who work
with the railway and they all confirm it is valid based on the current
instructions you post on your website. Given all your arguments used
are invalid can you please confirm what criteria you base your
decision to reject the route on.

My maps link at Exeter, my trip is routing point to routing point so
no other fares need be checked, I never double back although I do I
circle (tho no worse than the routing through Westbury offered in the
exmaple outlined below) and my entire route is mapped using Maps WR
+WX.

Just as a side note to further disprove your argument the only
permitted route using maps WR+WX is via Clapham Junction to Reading to
slough as you say. However, the Off peak day single from Woking to
Slough via Reading is £15.00 using that route and Weybridge to Slough
via Reading is £16.30 which by your method means NO valid routes exist
from woking to Slough (except the shortest which technically are
Woking-Ash Vale-North Camp-eading or Woking-Farnboro M-Farnboro N-
Reading!!!!!!!!!!
Please can you look again and reread your own document and show me
anywhere I am wrong or any condition I have violated. I agree its a
crazy route but to say it is invalid is just flat wrong.
I'm sorry for my tone in this email but I cannot believe that your
response ignored all criteria stated in your own rules that we have to
follow.

Please please can you look again and follow your own instructions as
we all have.
One further thing. Based on your theroy that means if I travel from
London to Inverness for example I would have to check every station
along the way I passed through just in case the fare was more
expensive. Thats the whole point of having routing points so
intermediate staions don't need to be checked as that would take
forever and be impossible. In addition in confirming my only valid
route(which I have subsequently proved as invalid using your theory)
you also confirm that routes through Guildford or Basingstoke are not
allowed however the SWT RJIS system allows both and we both agree
these are invalid so their system is proved to be wrong! In addition
the link on FRPP to the routing guide doesn't work any more (and it's
a fairly new link too) as it links to the old website and not the new
one from July 2nd and so stations can't even check if they wanted too
without changed the link.

I await your updated response."


However to their credit the people thatresponded to me are still
working and I called them at 5pm and right now (6:15pm) they are still
trying to decipher if I have a point!! I will update once I get a
response. they do at least agree now that my route is mapped and rout
Basingstoke isn't so we have some progress.
.

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