Re: Future of the Class 59

On 15 June, 23:28, m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:13:12 -0700 (PDT), D1053 <rob...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



For any motor there will be a current level at which the heat being
built up balances the motor's ability to lose the heat. This is the
motor's continuous rating.
Then there's the "one hour rating". If you have a motor at ambient
temperature and run it at this current level for an hour, then it will
be at the upper safe temperature for the motor. Run the motor any
longer than an hour at this current and your risk damaging the motor.
Note that you only get an hour if you start with a "cool" motor; you
can't just close the power controller and open it again straight away.
You have to allow time for the motor to cool first, or reduce the
current to the "continuous" level.
You can put higher currents into the motor for shorter periods,
provided that you don't start breaking mechanical bits like bearings.
Drivers are typically presented with electrical meters that show the
current passing through the traction motors of the locomotive/multiple
unit. These are usually marked with a green zone (below the continuous
rating), yellow (typically between continuous and one hour) and red
(above the one hour rating). The guages are marked in amps.

Is the traction motor temperature monitored?  Do they fit thermal
fuses?  

In the case of the 59 a driver may get a general fault light, or more
likely a power drop off, and if he'd been running in the red would
realise the TMs were in thermal stress. All the electrical system has
over temp protection, but the driver can do something about it as in
certain power notches the TM blowers can be controlled to blow more
cooling air to the TMs.
Specific examples;
59004, 15/09/03. Merehead to Acton hauling 4,150 tonnes, following an
ailing tamper between Westbury and Newbury Racecourse the loco had to
keep the load on the move without managing to get any respite from
moving at speeds between 10 and 35mph. The driver had it in varying
degrees of red all the time I watched the ammeter. But the point of
the continuous rating times is is being missed by most, and as pointed
out above, what Nick considers 'tripe" is viewed by operators, as
essential . With a 60 you have to be on the ball and not let the
needle stay in the red too long, in addition if you do, you mustn't go
back into that zone for a while to allow things to cool off. With a
59 the driver doesn't have the same worries, especially as the loco
being built to withstand US practice is working with UK sized loads.
You may not have to use for an hour at a time, but for 20-30 minutes
they are and 59003 on 6000 tonne iron ore trains around Hamburg really
impressed the Germans with it's "red running ability" for long periods
on some steeply graded sections.
The comment about 60s being able to haul more than a 59 made by
Flintstone is nonsense. All the data published in the public domain
states the reverse and some online sources have a power at the rail
figure which exceeds the power of the engine of a class 60! The
figures given in the forward to the operating manual for the 60 give
511KN Maximum T.E. The 59 manages over 540KN according to the
builders, Derby RTC recorded over 570KN on trials using a 59/1 on the
Settle and Carlisle line hauling steel slab. The reason the 59s did
not stay in South Wales is simple, the Mendips traffic picked up. The
59s were used to keep them from being idle at a time when nationally
the 60s were requiring attention. What was noticed was drivers in the
initial stages of training on the loco were reluctant to believe that
they were allowed to use the 59/0s and 59/1s in a way that would see a
60 start to smoke. The permissable red zone again.
60s employ a system called Sepex whereby power can be varied to the
TMs to maximise the ability to retain grip on the railhead. But it's a
mistake to think the 59 has only the 'super creep" control to get the
heavy loads moving. They can cope with poor adhesion very effectively,
as the 59/2s proved for National Power in colliery sidings. The 59s
have two systems, which can work in tandem, or on their own if a fault
disables one. the 60 relies on cutting power to motors as grip is
lost, the 59 cuts and increases power sequentially to prevent any
grip being lost. The 60 is reactive, the 59 pro-active and maintains
maximum grip throughout the acceleration curve. Again it can do this
because the D77B is capable of taking a much wider band of power
allowing the TMs to operate in a way that keeps the accelerating bogie
from sitting back and losing grip on the leading wheel.
60s met the requirement? Really? Depot managers several of them
colleagues of mine would disagree since the maintenance requirements
had to be changed soon after delivery from the specified times to cope
with the number of failures. One Sunday in 1995 I was at Hither Green
where the staff were struggling to get 9 class 60s serviceable. Both
management and staff that day had nothing nice to say about the 60s.
Some drivers at that depot being trained on both types, and one of
those is now a close friend, describe the situation quite simply. the
59 was trustworthy, the 60 was not. Now we know things did briefly
improve, but nowhere in the spec for the heavy haul type 5 order did
it state that man hours would have to be increased to 11 standard man
hours per one hour in service. Last I heard the 59s were around 3 man
hours to 1 in service.
Fuel economy. Both locos are judged to manage about 1.3 miles to the
gallon. But it was the class 60s which needed extra tankage installed
because they ran out of fuel on some early long distance runs. This
has resulted in loss of performance elsewhere.
Motive power is not judged by looks, sounds, or any other ethereal
judgement marker. It is performance and value for money. The 59s
performed as advertised, the 60s NEVER have. But hey who cares, plenty
more taxpayers money in the pot! Next people on here will be saying
Lewis Hamilton is beating Mr. Button this year!

.