Re: Fare Dodgers' Paradise?

On May 20, 12:07 am, Ross <junk.t...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 19 May 2008 06:43:05 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote in
<16f71f32-b85e-46a8-adce-3e628cdb0...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
seen in uk.railway:





On 19 May, 01:06, Ross <junk.t...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:06:15 GMT, Neil Williams wrote in
<48306187.1605...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, seen in uk.railway:

On Sun, 18 May 2008 06:45:02 -0700 (PDT), MIG
<googles...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Fare dodgers' lives are made easy by the system of penalty fares,
whereby they occasionally get charged =A320 when they should be
prosecuted (if they are challenged at all, unlike softer targets).

The idea of penalty fares[1], done properly, is that the person who
gets caught one day in 7 (say) should pay slightly more than 7 times
the fare on that occasion.  

No. It should be significantly higher than that; roughly 20 times the
average fare for a local journey/one zone seems to be the norm
elsewhere.

Viz the German practice of charging EUR 40 when the average 1 zone
fare is roughly EUR 2, and the Swiss charging CHF 80 with one zone
fares in the CHF 3-4 range.

The idea of (properly implemented) Penalty Fares is that they should
hurt enough that people aren't willing to take the risk of being
caught and just pay the correct fare by default.

The Swiss go further to make their PFs hurt: if you can't pay the CHF
80 Penalty Fare on the spot, they add admin charges - I didn't pay too
much attention to the exact amount the lass I saw being PFd on a
Thurbo train was quoted (being more surprised that my gripping
instincts still work almost 10 years after I stopped gripping full
time), but I think it was in the region of CHF 120.

That's 60 quid for not bothering to buy a ticket before travelling. I
think that'd make anyone think twice!

Yes, but that's effectively a fine, which should be issued by a court
after a prosecution, and might as well be much higher.  (Guilty till
proven innocent, punishment before trial and all that.)

The rest of Europe doesn't seem to agree with you there, and they
generally don't have any more efficient ticket sales options than we
do (for all people like to pretend otherwise).

FWIW, if you refuse to pay in Switzerland and end up in court, the
costs involved get *much* higher, and they get imposed over and above
any fine.

And also, the definition of "bother" needs to be clear.  Stand how
long in a queue exactly?  Miss the connection at the interchange when
the local station office was closed?  Go to what lengths to get coins
when the machine won't take notes or cards?  And so on.

The definition in Switzerland is, it seems, very clear: you buy before
you get on the train/tram/bus, end of story. No "reasons" or "excuses"
accepted. No "permit to travel" machines there , either.

But that must surely mean that you CAN buy?

I don't know how efficient the systems are in the various countries,
but as long as greater provision made to let people pay when they want
to than is made to catch them out if they don't, I probably wouldn't
object.

This isn't the case in the UK. If it was, you could reasonably assume
that someone without a ticket had deliberately avoided getting one.
That assumption is not possible in the UK.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Fare Dodgers Paradise?
    ... fares in the CHF 3-4 range. ... caught and just pay the correct fare by default. ... 80 Penalty Fare on the spot, they add admin charges - I didn't pay too ... after a prosecution, and might as well be much higher. ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: Fare Dodgers Paradise?
    ... the fare on that occasion. ... fares in the CHF 3-4 range. ... caught and just pay the correct fare by default. ... 80 Penalty Fare on the spot, they add admin charges - I didn't pay too ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: Fare Dodgers Paradise?
    ... fares in the CHF 3-4 range. ... caught and just pay the correct fare by default. ... 80 Penalty Fare on the spot, they add admin charges - I didn't pay too ... after a prosecution, and might as well be much higher. ...
    (uk.railway)
  • Re: Depression Financial
    ... Reality wise, others shouldn't pay, but we all ... they won't reverse charges, ... While the cc companies should never have extended the credit they did ... debt, it isn't the broke lady, now in the nursing home. ...
    (alt.support.chronic-pain)
  • Archbishops PA branded a fare dodger for 20p bus fare slip-up
    ... Rachel McKenzie, a committed Christian, has told the Evening Standard ... she will be given a criminal record and ordered to pay ... checked her Oyster card and discovered she had just 70p on it - ... prosecution is likely to cost as much as £5,000 to recover 20p. ...
    (uk.rec.cycling)
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