Re: Maglev and the BBC web site


"Stevie D" <stevieinyork@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u106g2lavg3nj6rmf03c2dvnuc3mmrm2ai@xxxxxxxxxx
Dave wrote:

I disagree. It mentions "too expensive" without doing a price
comparison - it just pulls the incorrect figure of "five times as
expensive" out of the hat without giving a conventional line's price.

Not true - it does compare the cost of maglev with the cost of
building LsGV in France:

::: The cost of the maglev railway in Shanghai worked out at a whopping
::: $63m (£33m) per mile. This compares with the $11m-per-mile cost of
::: recent extensions to France's traditional high-speed rail network.


And I don't know where this figure came from: The two most recent, LGV Med
cost $29.5m per mile and LGV Est part 1 is costing $25.9m per mile. Check
the project websites.

As I said, Shanghai is skewed by short line length and the added
complication of traversing a marsh. Hangzhou should be a better comparison
when figures are published.



...which is nearer 6 times the cost, rather than five times as they
said. Factor in that entirely new alignments will be needed into and
through cities, where land prices are likely to be higher (I'm not an
expert on Chinese property prices but I'm guessing they are lower than
London), thus increasing the differential between maglev and
conventional high speed rail.


With the exception of Lille, IIRC no French LGV goes into cities along its
route except at termini. I don't see city centre access as a prerequisite to
starting a service in the uk of any type - maglev or traditional - although
it would be desirable once revenue is coming in.

Again, if we are going to talk about energy consumption then please
let's have some figures, some consideration of energy sources and some
consideration of the competition. Sure, maglev goes faster and it
takes more energy to do that on a per train basis, but there are less
trains in the system

Energy costs are typically quoted on a 'per mile' or 'per passenger
mile' rate, which makes this issue irrelevant. These costs won't be
susceptible to the fact that fewer (not less) trains will be needed.


OK but let's see the maglev vs traditional vs short-haul air comparison.

and they are dispelling modes of transport that as yet cannot be
powered by 100% renewable energy.

Say what? Maglevs will be powered by National Grid electricity. Two of
the three main intercity routes in Britain are currently powered by
... National Grid electricity. Any improvements to electricity
generation will be just as applicable to electric trains as to maglev.


Indeed. But let's say that the development of a high speed network of any
type uses "ring-fenced" renewable energy to power it (in other words
sufficient new capacity such as a large wind farm is added to the grid). The
argument that maglev uses more energy per seat becomes irrelevant if by
doing so it does a better job of removing the domestic airline industry
entirely and still creates no emissions. Don't get me wrong, I'd welcome
traditional high speed rail over the status quo, but the studies have shown
that with its journey times, it will capture around 80% of the point to
point market from air and that is still 20% too few.

Dave


.

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