Re: Pressure is stepped up on the "rogue" Israel state


"James Hammerton" <jah.usenet@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7apt03F20384rU4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
abelard wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:05:23 +0100, aracari
<spamtrap@váilable.here.com> wrote:

'abelard' wrote thus:

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:56:21 +0100, aracari
<spamtrap@váilable.here.com> wrote:

'aaa' wrote thus:
From your posts it is you who seem dishonest. You are constantly
posting about the evils of socialism (fair enough) but then support a
citizens wage to re-distribute wealth, which is socialist by
defintion.

Didn't I give you at least three good reasons for a CW last week?
You seemed to accept them.

I dislike socialism as much as abelard and I wouldn't see the CW *as
described* as socialist, rather a practical solution to an intractable
problem of reducing work opportunities, and of a compassionate society
that wishes to do away with poverty.

The problem is that IF a socialist govt ever introduced such a
policy, it would become a socialist handout, not a right, and
would be used/misused/abused for political purposes.

you may also wish to note that the insane pseudo-economic
arguments of marx for the 'rights' of workers to added value...
is intentionally and clearly dealt with in my briefing document
http://www.abelard.org/briefings/citizens_wage.htm

wage slaves have no inherent 'right' to 'profits'

my approach is *entirely* different and relies on history
and citizenship....
I see some similar use of terms by myself to those used by you
in that piece. Not bad considering I haven't read it before ;-)

see other responses in this fred....

remember much of the wealth in modern society has *no*
individual living legitimate owner......

E.g. we enjoy a high standard of living by relying on the past endeavours
of scientists, technologists and engineers, and for that matter
philosophers, warriors and politicians. That heritage dwarfs whatever
further contributions are being made by today's society.

But what economic or political implications does one draw from this?

That the benefits gained from our endeavours made possible by former
generations should be given to our peers of this generation.

Ideally, the taxes we pay would be given to people in the nineteenth
century. That's not yet possible, so we have to give them to somebody
living.

But wait, there's a complication to this zany logic. We're only given money,
not wealth. Wealth we ought to give them, not money. Lord knows they need my
warm house and fantastic education. In any case, they're not mine.

Forster:

"The subject of the paper had been, "How ought I to dispose of my money?"
the reader professing to be a millionaire on the point of death, inclined to
bequeath her fortune for the foundation of local art galleries, but open to
conviction from other sources. The various parts had been assigned
beforehand, and some of the speeches were amusing. The hostess assumed the
ungrateful role of "the millionaire's eldest son," and implored her expiring
parent not to dislocate Society by allowing such vast sums to pass out of
the family. Money was the fruit of self-denial, and the second generation
had a right to profit by the self-denial of the first...

"Give them a chance. Give them money. Don't dole them out poetry-books
and railway-tickets like babies. Give them the wherewithal to buy these
things. When your Socialism comes it may be different, and we may think in
terms of commodities instead of cash. Till it comes give people cash, for
it is the warp of civilization, whatever the woof may be. The imagination
ought to play upon money and realize it vividly, for it's the--the second
most important thing in the world. It is so sluffed over and hushed up,
there is so little clear thinking--oh, political economy, of course, but so
few of us think clearly about our own private incomes, and admit that
independent thoughts are in nine cases out of ten the result of independent
means."


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT who said this ?
    ... Giving my money to the poor just so they can remain poor and be comfortable doing so seems a bit ridiculous to me. ... Socialism only benefits the lazy bastard poor class and the government that supports them. ... When tax breaks are eliminated by her party, they are redistributing wealth so that the poor can rise. ...
    (rec.outdoors.rv-travel)
  • ALL AMERICAS LEADERS ARE SOCIALISTS
    ... degree-level of socialism do you want to live under"? ... money and giving it to THEM. ... they are redistributing your wealth to them. ... communists with one goal in mind: TAKE YOUR MONEY AND REDISTRIBUTE THE ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Re: OT: Illegal Immigration
    ... 'Been to Europe lately? ... Socialist economic theory fundamentally impedes the creation of wealth. ... Unfortunately, for most of Western Europe, over time, Socialism became ... "Death to all corporations" can only come from a heart filled ...
    (alt.smokers.pipes)
  • McCain-Palin Freak Show backfires: Majority of Americans like the idea of sharing the wealth
    ... John McCain and Joe the Plumber are campaigning for Barack Obama, ... "spreader of wealth," the more the country has lined up behind the ... Charges of socialism are especially discordant coming from the McCain ...
    (alt.politics)
  • Doctor Strangepath or How I Learned to love Socialism
    ... "But the path to wealth through socialism is not so clearly seen. ... we have the socialist?s take on other people?s money. ... gravity are temporarily suspended, such as when I get on a plane. ...
    (rec.boats)
Loading