Re: Let's hear it for biofuels..................the panacea..........

On Apr 29, 6:35 pm, Robert S <roberts2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 29 Apr, 18:20, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:14:40 -0700 (PDT),  in uk.politics.misc, in
thread Re: Let's hear it for biofuels..................the
panacea.........., Mel Rowing <mel.row...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, wrote

On Apr 29, 5:34 pm, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
~~~~~~~~~
"The failure to reduce oil dependence is not the only flaw in the
ethanol program. It also has driven food prices disturbingly high. The
World Food Program is warning that the upward pressure on food prices is
likely to lead to a silent tsunami of hunger. Josette Sheeran, the
program’s executive director, warned that  "The price of rice has more
than doubled in the last five weeks".

Err ...

Rice is not used for ethanol production unless one includes Saki.
Neither is wheat in any quantity.

Maize is the most economical source.

Really? I would have imagined, say, sugar cane would trump that, via
fermentation of its sugars (still a retarded way to produce fuel,
mind).

Yes you're right of course.

Further there would appear to be a world surplus of sugar which
dietically speaking is not so important.

Brazil already processes significant quantities of cane sugar into
ethanol fuel.

Any numbers to back up your claim?

It would appear as though cellostic alcohol begins to become viable at
an oil price of $120 /gal. We're almost there though analysts suggest
that oil prices will fall over the years to come.

I did read an article/newspaper letter or whatever just the other day
and have been trying to locate it to respond to FACE.

This Wiki article will have to suffice instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol

Significant quantities of barley
are turned into ethanol but not for use as biofuel.

Eventually plant ethanol will will be made from cellulose which will
allow wood, straw and leaves to be used as feedstock leaving the grain
for human and animal consumption.

Care do demonstrate that that will make entropic and economic sense?

I do not suggest fro one moment that biofuels will ever be produced
in sufficient quantity to replace crude oil.

However, according to this Wiki article there is sufficient potential
in cellulose material that are disposed of in the US as waste to
provide for a potential 30% of US oil consumption. If this is in fact
the case then this is certainly worth having and will not use up a
square inch of land presently used for food production.

I also look forward to developments in gas (methane) to liquid
(alkane) formation, shale oil and eventually utilisation of methane
hydrate (as a source of methane) Rest assured if these technologies
once become established then their costs will fall.

I'd love to find in future years the oil sheiks had killed the golden
goose.

I fear people are dying because of decisions based on smug-mindedness
combined with utter ignorace.

I feel there is a lot of wasted emotion here. There is no present
world food shortage. People have been suffering malnourishment for
decades yet look at the shape of an increasing number of people who
pass you in the street. The problem is essentially one of disparities
of wealth. How long ago was it that we had wheat mountains here in
Europe and North American wheat was being dumped in the Atlantic?

There seems some kind of mindset around that seems to assume that it's
somehow immoral to use arable land to grow non-food crops. The reality
is that land has always been used for non-food cropping. How much land
is down to commercial forestry? How much land grows cotton? coffee?
tea? poppies ?? cocaine?? tobacco? cut flowers?

How much land is cultivated to North American and Western European
levels of efficiency?

There is, I believe much slack in the food production system yet.

There is one last consideration.

Land is not as versatile as is often supposed. Take the North Ameican
Prairie for instance. There wheat is grown almost exclusively not
because world demand for wheat is limitless but because of the short
growing season they are good for growing little else. Similarly a
paddy will produce 2, in a good year 3 crops of rice but is totally
useless for the production of sugar cane or oil crops.
.

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