Re: UK employers prefer migrants to Brits

On Jan 1, 5:36 pm, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
sizy_one wrote:
On Jan 1, 9:28 am, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
sizy_one wrote:
On Dec 31, 5:56 pm, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Maria wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:31:44 -0800 (PST), creusa
<suewhiteman2...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Business will take the best it can get and will have to pay for
the skills relative to the global marketplace.
Brits have as much right to work somewhere else as others have a
right to work here. They are just usually too lazy or apologetic
as to why they won't go.

I am sick of hearing this fallacy/outright lie.
1. I am 45 - nobody ever said to me that I must prepare myself for
the global workplace and be prepared to leave my home country. It
has only dawned on me in the last couple of years that I might
have no choice, and my family might have no choice. I am now
warning my children, but it is a fact that this was imposed on
us, not elected by us.

More head in the sand stuff. Millions upon millions of British
people work and earn a good living in the UK, if you do not Maria
then it means you are not suitable, it is as simple as that. That
may be hard to accept but to deny it will get you nowhere.
Your starting to believe your own propaganda John.
Millions upon millions of British work and survive depspite living
in a country
where the poitical establishment has worked steadfastly to destroy
the very
essence of Britishness which has always been the soul of our nation
and the
soul of the middle class.

More ranting nonsense. Britishness is made by the British, no-one
else. If a sense of Britishness is disappearing then that is the
choice of the people concerned and nothing to do with the Government.

It's everything to do with the British Government as they mould our
society over time with the policies they implement.

If that were true then everyone would think he same wouldn't they? They
don't all think the same therefore your argument is valueless.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and have no
grasp
whatsoever on the purposes and means of government. Before you dig
yourself
a bigger grave it might be wise to reflect that from this remark alone
you will have
marked yourself as the biggest *** on the board.
Of course the government strives to change our attitudes towards
issues
through its own propaganda, all government do, always have done and
always will do.

Nobody
forces you to think in this or that way

DITOW above.

but if you are willing to
consume your woeful media without reflection then of course you'll be
brainwashed.

Your obviously talking from experience and still suffering the
consequences.


The reason of course is our inherent belief
in fair play
which the upper class see as a direct threat to their privaledged
position as when
developed leads to socialism.
So the privaledged gather enough lackies and arse wipers around them
like yourself
and set about destroying our self belief by infamous defamations of
character, attempting
to show that this country has some sort of inherent disabilities
that are not shared with every
other country in the world.

Good god man, no-one forces you to think this or that. This is
another case of blaming others rather than facing facts.
(It's 'privileged' BTW)
eh!!

Which bit don't you understand, how to spell 'privileged' or the fact
that no-one forces you to think in one way or another? In either case i
really cant' see what you are quibbling about as both are patently
correct.

Only in the mind of a Brussel propagandist. Real people have a grasp
of
this subject matter. It makes life difficult for you doesn't it.



2. The only people who *can* leave Britain and work elsewhere are
HSW.

HSW? What does that mean.
Once more it is just excuses, anyone can leave Britain and work
elsewhere just as they can move house and work elsewhere. It
doesn't require a great deal of money but it does require will and
effort.

That's just what you want for the Brits to leave so the coast is
clear for the final take over.

You really do have comprehension difficulties don't you. I commented
on Maria's post saying that British people *can't* leave, nowhere
did I say that British people *should* leave.

You must admit though it would make your life a lot easier.

It wouldn't change one jot of my life laddy, not a jot.

Then your a lost case old man.



I've got news for you "WE WILL GET OUR REFERENDUM"
I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you.
Other countries are not like us and simply won't accept those of
us who are not HSW. It's no use saying to LSW to leave and live in
Poland when they can't get a job because they are unskilled, lowly
educated and don't speak Polish.
There are 27 countries in the EU
They'll be 26 soon!
Actually I'd be quite happy about that, the UK has done nothing but
whine ever since it joined the EU.

First sensible thing you've said this month.

Glad you admit that they've done nothing but whine since they joined.
You do have a modicum of sense then.

Then we've progressed this is the second agreement we've reached in
this post.



and they all have high and low-skilled
jobs. If getting them requires learning a language then learn it,
that's what immigrants have to do everywhere.
The only ones who can leave are those with
enough equity in their property to buy a foreign property outright
and live on the leftovers.
More excuses. Ever heard of renting? Still the way her majority of
people on the contienet house themselves.
Don't worry John, we wont be going anywhere there's a battle to be
won in our own country
first. Don't forget Hitler made the mistake he could walk all over
us, your eu buddies will be
sent packing soon. Oh and by the way, we will be taking back our
fishing grounds.
Once again, I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you and while
you're breathing maybe you could forget this ridiculous myth
entirely created in your own head that there is some plot to take
over or destroy the UK. It shows about as much sense of (political)
reality as one would expect from a ten year old
It happens to be more real than your own myth that the eu will create
wealth and prosperity for europe.

What proof do you have, any? No I don't think you do, it is just a load
of bollocks put out by what are called newspapers in the UK. There are
450 million people in the EU and plenty more banging on the door to
join, do you think they are all daft and all ganging up to put down
sixty million in a tiny little island off the north-west coast of the
continent?

You rearly do need to get a grip John. The UK is I believe the third
most
influencial country in the world due to it's banking industry. If
it's not the third it's
well up in the top sector, combining that with it's influence in the
USA and around
the world gives the eu the illusion of credability with the gullable
such as yourself.
I'm sure I read recently that more investment capital flows through
London than any
other financial center in the world. So you can stop trying to make
out that losing
us would not severly dent the little credability the eu has. I
wouldn't be surprised if
it wasn't the begining of the end for Brussels.


Got any other wonderful conspiracy theories up your sleeve,

None as good as your theory of parlamentry life where propaganda
has no psychological impact on the population unless it chooses
otherwise.


Elvis kidnapped and taken off on a spaceship perhaps. Just about as
ludicrous as your claims.

Even most of the ex-pats I have read of who
moved to Poland did so because they married a Polish person.
Why Poland, why not Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark etc?
3. Even if those of us with low skills wanted to leave, we mostly
couldn't - we have no disposable income and many of us are 'too
old' to be employable in countries which are laden with youthful,
well educated individuals..
If you do a good job for a good price you can get work anywhere
But you
have to do a good job and, unfortunatelty, the British do not have
a good reputation on that score.
More Quisling propaganda.
A fact, sorry. The British have a reputation of being pretty lazy and
not very good workers. The recent comment by business leaders on
their preference for foreign workers underlines that. You are just
another one hiding his head in the sand. Denying something doesn't
cure it or make it go away and until people such as yourself face
reality then you'll continue to be depressed and the UK wil continue
to go down the pan.
Grow up you twit. Do you rearly think these same business leaders
would state that they go abroad for their labour because it's cheaper
and
the workers have less expectations than the British.

No they don't go abroad for labour, the labour comes to them, they
choose the best, those who work hard and do a good job. They probably
also prefer people who are literate.

So Corporations don't move abroad in order to take advantage of cheap
labour
markets. Is that what your saying, it's all a myth? You've got to
get out more
into the real world.



Of course not, they can't be
seen to be sub human and actively employ slaves for production. I
remember
when Tate & Lyle were cought out employing natives for 2p an hour to
trample
sugar cane, a most embarasing scenario for them.

Do they cut much sugar cane in the UK then?

The point is that Tate & Lyle is a British company moron.


I'm sick of the middle-classes spouting off about the laziness and
unwillingness of British people to agree to be forced out of their
own country.
Don't talk bollocks no one says that people should be forced out of
their own country, absolutely no-one.
That's the whole point halfwit, you don't see it written in the
newspapers but the sum
consequences are the same.
Why, because you say so? Got any proof that anyone is being forced
out of the country, any comments from any person in a position of
power to this effect? No, I thought not.
You rearly are a twat. The evidence is everywhere.

Supply some then, that's what I asked for. But you can't can you because
there isn't any, you just rant and bluster.

More twat comments from John. Do you rearly think a politician is
going to
stand up and say that if the middle classes wish to maintain their
standard
of living they must move abroad because if they remain they will
suffer a
reduction of their real wage due to long term government policies.
You rearly
are an idiot John, you live in some fantasy world where long term
strategic government
policies live in the public domain.



Why do you think all our qualified
personel end up going abroad to work.

Because they want to and maybe get better wages and conditions. Got any
problem with that?

Not at all, but I've noticed that you've strategicaly left out those
that are forced to.


Take the health care industry for example. Nurses are
fleeing to other countries as soon as they are qualified, together
with physiotherapists, radiologists, Doctors.

Perhaps they ought to increase their wages then.

Precisely.


Sounds like your the one reading the wrong newspapers around here,
although I doubt that you read any at all if your answers are anything
to go by.

Actually I read half a dozen a day and not only in English.

If that's the case, stick to a good novel.


You obviously have difficulty in understanding the difference
between propaganda and reality.

I don't do propaganda, that's why I can criticise your nonsensical
comment for it is quite clear that you do.

He says, making a completely nonsensical comment.


Remember that the Poles etc, have come here by choice. We
have fewer and fewer choices. If employers don't want us here, why
should they want us anywhere else?
Well for a start you are a native English speaker and that is a
very valuable commodity believe me.
We should not be in competition with immigrants inside our own
borders,
You really do have comprehension difficulties, the thread was about
moving abroad, didn't you notice?
And you think that competition from cheap labour does not contribute
to the mass exodus from Britain. Don't make me laugh.

No, it doesn't contribute at all because those suffering from
competition are at the bottom end of the market and are not usually in a
position to move abroad, they neither have the money nor the intellect.

No, you idiot, everyone is in competition at every level of the market
place.
You have no grasp of this at all.


but we are due to
Thatchers legacy of destroying the trade unions and socialism and
her capitulation to
corporate business. Then along came New Labour and put the finishing
touches to it all.
If we had a proper minimum wage structure then immigrants would
compete alongside us.
You have a minimum wage, the same rules apply to everyone. If they
are being flouted then you should complain to the relevant
authorities and stop whingeing.
meaningless response.

Yes dear. You mean "I have no answer" I think.

No, I meant "meaningless response" as I made no comment about flouting
existing laws. Your response came directly from Never Never Land.


Before you say ah but you've got a minimum wage, it doesn't take a
genius to realise that it is
only worth the paper it is written on if it's a substantial enough
to support a family and doesn't drive
critical work forces out of the capital and other expensive areas.
Yes it's the *minimum* wage. No one expects to live well on it, it is
just the bottom level under which no one should be paid, a safety
net.
The problem arises when you can't live at all on it and become a drain
to the country in your old age because you have not been able to save
in your life time. Or even worse, driven into debt. Since the
destruction of the trade unions in Britain the minimum wage has been
driven down and
the trend will continue.

And so this didn't occur when there was no minimum wage at all then?

Irrelevent to what is happening now.

Everyone was rich and happy being paid slave wages in major cities, is
that what you mean?

No it isn't. But the trade unions were strong enough to negotiate on
behalf
of their members which helped to drive up wages in real terms. Now
the
government sets some bogus inflationary figure, having strategically
taken
out whole sections of living costs, such as house prices. This all
helps to
increase the poverty of the British in real terms and is an active
part of
destablising the country.

The minimum wage is a relatively recent thing instigated by a Labour
government (and not before time) and it has NEVER been reduced. Do try
to stop talking through your arse.

If the minimum wage does not keep up with inflation in real terms,
which it
doesn't, it's actually not worth the paper it's written on.


Because third world environments have
been used to existing in a state of squaller, why should we have to
lower our living standards because they
are happy to come here and work for next to nothing.
The rules are the rules, if they work for less than the minimum wage
then complain to the relevant authorities. If they are working for
more than that but less than other people were being paid then tough
***, that's competition.
When the authorities don't set a proper minimum wage there is little
use in complaining.

The minimum wage is quite similar to the minimum wage in other
countries. It is not meant to be the *average* wage, just a limit that
stops people being paid 2UKP an hour in central London.

So you agree that the minimum wage offers no safeguard against
increased
poverty in Britain, particularly pertaining to the middle classes.?


(It's 'squalor' BTW, you need some educaion lad, perhaps you'd be
better off learning your own language instead of writing crap to
Usenet)
You seem to understand what I'm talking about, although that sometimes
appears selective, I wonder why?

Yes I understand what you are talking about but that doesn't change the
fact that your English is very poor. Many employers would not employ you
because of that, has that never occurred to you?

British people are saddled with a standard of education that
people lilke you and other middle-class twerps who fell in love
with Blair, have foisted on us.
More Daily-Mailish bull***. There is nothing fundamentally wrong
with British education or we would not still lead the world in many
fields and have Nobel prize winners, the problem is that people
prefer to be idiots and are happy to fill their days with crap TV,
rubbish newspaper reading and getting blitzed down the pub rather
than improving themselves.
More wild clap trap from John. Notice how he does not bring into the
arguement
the violent state mechanism that's brought to bear against the
public, generating the
feeling of hopelessness from the young and old alike. The ugly side
of capitalism
by the same state mechanism which is the downfall of not only
Britain but every other
country in the world today. Gone is the security of a job for life
and proper internal
promotion. Gone is the security of a pension in our old age.
I didn't vote for Thatcher nor do I consider myself a capitalist.
Oh, your a capitalist all right. For without capitalism your Marxist
brothers in Brussels wouldn't exist.

Marxist,=capitalist. Some mistake surely? You really are dumb mate. I
mean that, your really are dumb.

Ok you're obviously in need of a little education and as I'm feeling
magnanumus
I'll provide it.
This is what Boochin argues. " Marxism is the ideology of capitalism
par excellence
because it focuses on capitalist production without challenging the
underlying
'cultural sensabilities' that sustain it. Marxism is therefore not
only the
culmination of the 'bourgeois Enlightenment' but also a form of
bourgeois
sociology. (op cit Toward an ecolotgical society pp 29, 193)


You will not support freedom in education, forever
trying to dumb us all down into medicore equality and while
erdicating competition because 'taking part is all that matters'.
Mission accomplished.
There is still a vast difference between uneducated and educated
people. Any dumbing down is a purely personal choice. You don't
have to watch ***, eat ***, read *** and talk *** you know.
Sometimes it's forced upon us by your posts!
Says the fellow who can barely express himself correctly in his
native language.
dito above.

That'll be 'ditto' I take it. Listen son, your command of your own
language is poor, there is no doubt about it, so instead of ranting why
not read a little more or go to night school to improve yourself.

Britain is a country of low expectations - we expect children to
get pregnant so we foist a barrage of anti-pregnancy programmes
on them.
Oh FFS. Why does Britain have the highest teenage pregnancy rate of
any European country, because of sex-education? No I think not, it
is because in the UK sex is treated in an immature way in society
and the media.
Ha,Ha you'll be converting us all to Catholisism next.
That'll be 'Catholicism' will it? And I really can't see what that
has to do with my comments above. Since when has Catholicism been
sensible about sex?
We expect them to commit crime, so we will our country with CCTV
and archive every detail about every person that we can, and make
more and more new laws in order to 'prevent' crime, which
actually just criminalises more people. We expect people to
dismiss governmental accountability, and so treat the electorate
with contempt. We expect people to lie down and accept be
screwed, so we tax them to the hilt and stand by while the cost
of living goes through the roof with unreasonable price rises
that most other countries would not accept without a riot or two.
We don't expect any of these things, if we did no one would
complain about them. You really should stop reading the Daily Mail
you know, it rots the brain.
Crime is being promoted to destablise the country.
Oh FFS. Are there reds under your bed too?
Simple it's like violent films,
the young and disinfranchised are fed violence which eventually they
will emulate.
Are they forced to watch them? No, they most certainly are not so
don't talk bollocks.
There is only one person around here with that problem and it's not
me.
There are violent posters on every street corner advertising
violence. The largest percentage of films and soaps have to do with
violence. Newspapers
are full of it, television news is full of it and you say we are not
having it forced
down our throats.

And are you so stupid that you become violent because of it, do you not
have any judgement of your own, no choice in whether you consume or
don't consume?

Once again your obsessed with this so called choice and make no
allowance
for the brain washing effects of propaganda on vast sections of the
community.


Grow up.

I have thanks and have seen far more of the world than you.

Combine all that with CCTV, bogus terrorism fear mongering and your
well on the way
to destroying Britain and what's even more important destroying our
values.
True enough if you let that be so. That's the problem, you have let
it be so.
We have no choice and you know it.

What a terribly defeatist attitude. Of course you have a choice, you can
lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.


Unless it's about to die of thirst.


Wrt education, we expect our children to be ignorant, and so treat
them as such, and obsess about educational targets, league tables,
and even fiddle the results so they don't look as bad in order to
'drag' them up to some theoretically acceptable standard..
Britiain is a country of negativity and low expectations which
waits around speculating and waiting for the sky to fall in - our
country has become a living self-fulfilling prophecy.
A nation is the people who make up that nation. The fault is not
the government's, not the Queen's, not God's but the belief that
money is the most important thing in life, a legacy of Thatcher
Your arguement falls apart when the elite have these values and
promote them.
Why's that then, are you forced to accept them? Once again the
answer is 'no'.
The privaleged class have a distortionate control of the media, so we
are forced to accept much of it.

You consume the media, no one forces you to do so you know. Of course
it's crap, knowing that why bother then? I read newspapers to get the
news, I would never dream of taking their opinion as of value and as for
TV...if you gave me one it would go straight to the tip.


Your drivel would have given Orwell inspiration for a follow up to
nineteen eighty four.


(I see you still can't spell 'privileged' even though I've told you how
and you could have copied it, it shows that you are a either very poor
student, bone idle or just ridiculously stubborn)

I'm affraid you've highlighted you weak assessment skills by not
hiting
on the right answer once again!


<spit>. You're
negativity and your ostrich-like hiding of your head in the sand is
symptomatic of the current state of affairs, only you (all) can
change that. Here we have people daily telling us they are
'patriots' and that Britain is losing its soul etc because of all
the foreigners/the EU/the government/the tooth fairy, do you
honestly think that this is a positive attitude likely to improve
things? If not do something about it.
Don't worry we plan to. The first step is a REFERENDUM.
There won't be a referendum and if there were it would maintain the
status quo for most people are far more sensible than you show
yourself to be.

The why havn't we been allowed a REFERENDUM bearing in mind the
embarassment it has caused the last two governments. The reason is
obvious they know we'll chuck you cronies out and take our lives
back. Glad to hear you're looking forward to the day.

Why should there be a referendum? Do you have referenda for the other
treaties the government signs up to? You elect your representatives to
make decisions for you, that is the way it has always been and the way
it will no doubt remain for a very long time.

And now you have to bring up the failings of democracy. However it is
appropriate to note that the eu relies on such anomilies.

And you are fooling
yourself if you think that a referendum on the new treaty will change
the UK's EU status whether you vote yes ot no, it is not about Britain's
membership of the EU, just an aspect of it. The EU will remain, continue
to go from strength to strength and continue to make Europe one of the
major players on the world scene. Get used to it.

That sounds like the last gasps of a dying hyena.

Sizy_one

.