Re: electric car maker makes incredible performance claims .....[lite]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:44:36 -0700, Robert S <roberts218e@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On 13 Sep, 02:12, abelard <abela...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:43:42 -0700, Robert S <roberts2...@xxxxxxxxx >
wrote:



On 12 Sep, 23:56, abelard <abela...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:46:17 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

<dirk.bru...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
abelard wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:35:18 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
<dirk.bru...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

abelard wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:40:15 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
<dirk.bru...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Gaz wrote:
"abelard" < abela...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:fj7ge3t1eijlil8b1eerfeempt0j7bh186@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.lightningcarcompany.com/electric-v-petrol.php
"100% ELECTRIC POWER - Lightning technology delivers ultra smooth,
full power immediately from zero rpm. True to its name, the Lightning
GTSE can be charged in approximately 10 minutes for over 250 miles of
motoring, making long journeys a breeze. Full regenerative braking
means the battery receives charge every time you decelerate.
price not found yet!!
It will never reach production. Such a quantum performance improvement in
portable electricity storage would be big news around the world.
There is a more important reason.
Electricity generating capacity does not exist to provide for a
significant % of the existing vehicle fleet to change to electric. In
theory the entire automotive base could become electric within 10 years,
but the power plants could not be built to charge the batteries.
home generation?
From what? petrol?

pv or wind dependent on location

Do the maths.
I drive an average of 50 miles per day.
Let's say that I need to replace about 1 gallon of petrol burned at 30%
efficiency. I need therefore about 40 MJ or roughly 11 kWHr per day. Or
approximately 500W average generation throughout the day. With
contemporary solar PV that's around 40 sq m of cells. Just about do-able
if every house in Britain was limited to one electric car and a roof
consisting entirely of PV cells.

ok
it looks to me as if rs is going for different (worse) numbers...
i'll watch from the sidelines and hopefully learn

Oops, I missed a k in the solar radiance value, which I'll attribute
to the late hour.

So it should be 4.5 m^2, and if assuming 15% conversion efficiency
this gives 30 m^2 of optimally aligned pv as equivalent to 1 kg petrol
in terms of energy, 45 MJ.

ah, thanx for the correction

1 gallon is approx 3 kg of petrol, with 25% efficiency is 33.75 MJ.

30 m^2 with 70% efficiency (educated guesstimate for storage and
motor) is approx. the same.

Approx 60 m^2 for forty miles a day, not as bad as I thought it would
be.

many small diesel cars are now getting 70+mpg

Yes, and of course my calculation assumes similar weights for both
types of car, but you will be lugging around a substantial mass of
batteries in the second case.

but lighter motor/s...and greater efficiency at the point of use...
and that feeds back to improved performance....

then there are rapidly improving materials

Still not practical for a lot of people.

Batteries are a terrible storage medium, also.

what is your reasoning for that comment?http://www.abelard.org/briefings/fuel_cells_hydrogen.php#nanotech_130607

Energy density Li-ion: 60*10^4 J/Kg
Petrol: 45*10^6 J/Kg.

So, 75 times less energy per Kg.

ok...it's gradually seeping in :-)
but the increased battery weight must be offset by lower engine weight

With 25% versus 90% efficiency, you need over 20 times more mass of
batteries versus petrol for the same energy output. Diesel is more
efficient again, as you point out.

you are doing a good job educating me...but i'm a slow learner!

hey...can you give me a simple conversion to j/kg to kw/kg (joules to
kws...i think in kws) to save me searching?

Also: lengthy (hours) of recharge time, cost, considerations of range,
reliability and safety considerations.

the new batteries are starting to claim rapid charging (10 minutes!)
the new batteries are also claimed as *much* more stable....than
the present li-ions(as seen in regular battery recalls)....

My gut feeling is that the answer lies in large scale nuclear power
plants (also to a lesser extent solar and wind) driving the synthetic
production of hydrocarbon fuel, given its high energy density,
convenience and simplicity.

that agrees fully with my grasp to date....
but the onrush of material science is moving the goalposts almost by
the week....

regards

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
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